Great piece by academic Kathleen Stock (mentions MN)

[Ereshkigal]

medium.com/@kathleenstock/when-bindels-speak-b305625a7521

So so good.

Just caught up with this.
Not place marking at all!

I had to come out of hiding for this. You would think people would be considerate of my self imposed exile. Tut.

I'm just going to replicate damns post in full (a) to save people scrolling so far upthread and (b) in case someone 'helpfully' reports it as a personal attack and it gets deleted

'Bowlofbabelfish
Well if you want biology I’m here to assist. I do get the feeling that factual science isn’t the strong point of the Vocal activist subset though.
Wow. That's great. Thank you. Is yours GCSE, or not that up to date? Because I'm getting a bit fedup with hearing from people who think the stuff they learned in the first year or two of secondary school trumps the expertise of serious research scientists and consultant-level specialist clinicians.
And you are right although it's a surprise to hear it from you that facts are not the strong point of anti-trans activists.'

Oh dear oh dear oh dear. It's almost as though damn can't imagine that a person could be a woman and a serious research scientist.

So just to recap,
Dr Kathleen Stock Director of Teaching and Learning (School of History, Art History and Philosophy) 'no relevent knowledge'

Professor Germaine Greer 'demonstrably low on actual knowledge of the subject.'

BowlofBabelfish 'Is yours GCSE, or not that up to date? Because I'm getting a bit fedup with hearing from people who think the stuff they learned in the first year or two of secondary school trumps the expertise of serious research scientists and consultant-level specialist clinicians'

Blimey!

For full effect needs to be followed with link to Wikipedia.

'Don’t express an opinion on what women are; leave it to trans women to decide that'

This is the crux of it for me, essentially women are being told in places like MN and elswhere that even beyond any factual points about biology that may be offensive to Trans idiology - how women feel about their sex and the things affecting that class are somehow irrelevant and dangerous.

It started with a social pressure ban on factual scientific words and conclusions about sex and has now extended to not even being allowed convey even our lived experience in public anymore.

A woman has already been told by a Judge that she had to change the sex by which she referred to her opponant in court - how long before Laws come in that will actually send women to prison for their refusal to lie about factual reality?

Lol Bowl has a life :) I think she'll be here in the morning Damn. In the meantime please feel free to lay out your killer biology.

I wonder if it will be the equivalent of "the computer is a magic box with gears in it, you people with your undergraduate computer science degrees just don't understand".

Wow. That's great. Thank you. Is yours GCSE, or not that up to date? Because I'm getting a bit fedup with hearing from people who think the stuff they learned in the first year or two of secondary school trumps the expertise of serious research scientists and consultant-level specialist clinicians.

I have a GCSE yes.
I also have some A levels
And two first degrees (a double first, if you’re asking)
two masters degrees,
a PhD done under a Nobel Laureate,
And a couple of postdocs,
then a career, amounting to 22 years as a ‘serious research scientist’, then a second career mixing said previous life with clinical trials and drug development. Is that enough for you or is there perhaps a swimming certificate or two I can add in as well? I’m sure I have some in the loft....

Funnily enough though this IS GCSE level biology, and I’d imagine any person on here with an iota of common sense can follow the actual science because it isn’t hard.

I also go to bed rather early these days, I’m afraid my pesky female biology has made me a bit pregnant (if anyone from class 3b can answer how that works they can earn five house points) so I’m a little tired.

So, about the science. What did you want to ask about?

Wooooo!

That told you damn 😂😂😂😂

I went to medical school, but I don’t think I’d have got in if I couldn’t prove I already knew something that basic. That gets taught before GCSE!

And Bowl - you are outstanding 🙇‍♀️

Some of us have "O" Levels too. We are Old Women.

AAK

Yes

There's a sort of code that know-nothings use. They use terms like "serious research scientists' and 'Oxbridge University'. Terms that people who are actually those things would never use,

We see you.

I wasn’t terribly serious all the time I have to confess - departmental cheese and wine nights could get messy.

Bowl

Bravo Kathleen, again 😁

Boom

I also go to bed rather early these days, I’m afraid my pesky female biology has made me a bit pregnant (if anyone from class 3b can answer how that works they can earn five house points)

Actual LOLs.

Who'd a thunk it? The cunty women aren't all the same! Some of them are different from others! They have areas of expertise! You don't just go to the Cunty Women Emporium and buy one! This means that stock (fallacious) arguments can't be universally applied!

Well. My eyes are well and truly opened.

Great piece- what is really admirable is that she links to someone who is trying to refute her argument.
That author (Talia Mae Betcher) refers to adult-human-females as "non-trans women".
I find that language appalling and absurd.

Talia Mae states "Stock’s okay with a big, hairy trans guy using “female body-only spaces”? Even if he’s had phalloplasty and a hysterectomy? Just so long as he’s got xx chromosomes? ".

Now, I run I in rather confined circles, and am probably a tad naive. But, I would love to hear from one of these "big, hairy, trans guys" .
I cannot imagine them being more of a threat to me, than a former man.

Excellent article.

Kathleen Stock tweets: twitter.com/Docstockk

Writes: medium.com/@kathleenstock

Further quotes, links to twitter and writings at the second half of the thread below (after de-rail attempt #2):

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3284251-Lisa-Muggeridge-Suspended-by-Twitter-and-Quoting-her-breaches-MN-Guidelines

BaronessBlonde

The instistance we should use 'non-trans women' started on some threads in the FWR (Feminism & Women's Rights) board of Mumsnet yesterday.

" Is that enough for you or is there perhaps a swimming certificate or two I can add in as well? " bowl Maybe a good handwritng award too?

Can I mention to all you fecking heathens that popcorm is best made in a pot on the stove. Then you must add hot melted butter and obtain a cold beer from the fridge

R0wantrees did it?
Who is insisting?

I demand to see your swimming certificates, Bowl .

I am but a lowly physical scientist, though I did do my PhD in a department with an international reputation (no Nobel laureates, though - may have to see if I can find my cycling proficiency certificate as well as the swimming certificates, to redress the balance) and now work in a research institute which is one of the top three in its field.

Funnily enough, despite being in physical sciences rather than biology, any sort of serious science training does enable you to detect pseudo-science bullshit being spouted. And boy, does it get spouted a lot. (Clown fish... won't somebody think about the clown fish?)