Great piece by academic Kathleen Stock (mentions MN)

[Ereshkigal]

medium.com/@kathleenstock/when-bindels-speak-b305625a7521

So so good.

EstrellaDamn
That's a great piece. I have to say 'Watch your mouth' actually chilled me to the bone a little. That's exactly how this silencing feels: threatening, masculine, dark.

I felt exactly the same way. And I think that is why so many women are angry with Mumsnet about this and are arguing loudly instead of just walking away - we are hearing Watch Your Mouth, and our rage at every single time we have been told this is bubbling to the surface. I am done with being told to watch my mouth.

And yet I advise my own children to watch theirs on this topic because even the slightest of honest discussions could see them disciplined in allegedly educational environments. This is insane, it's hurting us, it's hurting our children, and all so some men can have their feelings cushioned from reality???

“Don’t express an opinion on what women are; leave it to trans women to decide that. Don’t be assured. Don’t be bold. Don’t be whimsical or linguistically playful. Don’t try to be funny. Watch your mouth.”
This is the message that is being sent to all women every time some one gasps and tells us ‘you can’t say that!’

Great contribution Damn
'Expert', 'knowledgeable about the subject'. Glorious irony on this funny sunny day

Joan Summers wrote: "I am done with being told to watch my mouth.

And yet I advise my own children to watch theirs on this topic because even the slightest of honest discussions could see them disciplined in allegedly educational environments".

This is precisely why I can't shake the impression (expressed on other threads) that we're caught up in a social conformity experiment that is taking place without prior ethics approval or any oversight.

Great article! I’m also very angry at effectively being told to watch your mouth. It plays into a long history of women being threatened with violence for daring to speak. Disgustingly misogynistic.

Best article I have read

Sh3 explains i5 so clearly and able to understand it

Mumsnet hq shoul£ b3 reading it

Awesome !!

I work in the field of philosophy, and it's a mistake to think that Stock isn't qualified to talk about this topic because she specialises in aesthetics. Philosophy teaches one to think in a critical way. Philosophers are trained to pick apart, and construct, arguments on a wide variety of topics. You don't need to have specialist training in a subject area to tell whether an argument is strong or weak. Stock is simply pointing out that a great many arguments in favour of transgenderism are poorly constructed, and invalid.

I suppose MN is enforcing female servility.

Don't say THAT to a man! Or Else!

It's quite abusive actually to have MN censoring us women the way they are.

Philosophy teaches one to think in a critical way.

It does indeed. So that won’t go down well ...

And of course isn't all of this linked with abuse and patterns of abuse.

Gender dypshoria, identity disorder, naricssism, emotional dysregulation, aviodance, delusion, all come from past abuse/ trauma. Big hurts and small hurts. abuse by a thousnad paper cuts. The internalisation of shame, externalising shaming behaviour, bullying and mis-directed anger, abuse of power and control, sexual fetishes.

As ever some people manage to break out but others simply people perpetuate the toxic effects. We are just seeing it on a societal scale, not seen since the nazis, and not in some isolated cult.

I say people because it is men and women who can be damaged or scared, trapped and complicit, and defend their own damaged mindset and turn it on others. Hence MN captiulating. Even if it is caused originally by toxic masculinity.

So many people are so far down the rabbit hole they don't know they are in it. Society it so far down the rabbit hole. This is serious shit. We are mostly fucked.

Great article

MN is enforcing female servility.

Yep, but it's not going to work. The more draconian the rules become, the stronger our resistance.

She makes a great point that male speech is never policed this way. There is all manner of misogyny out there with no one jumping down the throats of men to stop it...

apologies for my somewhat stating the obvious psot.

i am dealing (with difficulty) with people in RL that a range of similar issues related to abuse but not trans, and seeing it play out on a grand scale is a bit frightening and depressing.

luckily some women are still up for the fight! thank you to you all

It's so helpful to have a philosophical framework to hang this off when I next write to my MP. It's the opposite of the emotional argument TRAs come out with.

Last line was brilliant - a big fu to owen jones and his tra handmaids

Brilliant.

Bowlofbabelfish
Well if you want biology I’m here to assist. I do get the feeling that factual science isn’t the strong point of the Vocal activist subset though.
Wow. That's great. Thank you. Is yours GCSE, or not that up to date? Because I'm getting a bit fedup with hearing from people who think the stuff they learned in the first year or two of secondary school trumps the expertise of serious research scientists and consultant-level specialist clinicians.
And you are right although it's a surprise to hear it from you that facts are not the strong point of anti-trans activists.

Bowlofbabelfish...Well if you want biology I’m here to assist. I do get the feeling that factual science isn’t the strong point of the Vocal activist subset though....Wow. That's great. Thank you. Is yours GCSE, or not that up to date?

Oh golly

Oh golly

Gumdrops! I can't stop laughing! There's lack of self-awareness and then there's lack of self-awareness. Bless. Flail.

Damn's comment is the funniest thing I've ever read on Mumsnet, albeit unintentionally. Penis beaker had nothing on this!

Wow. That's great. Thank you. Is yours GCSE, or not that up to date? Because I'm getting a bit fedup with hearing from people who think the stuff they learned in the first year or two of secondary school trumps the expertise of serious research scientists and consultant-level specialist clinicians.

Oh my gosh, I so agree. Actual expertise is ever so important. We must amplify the voices of those who know what they’re talking about.

Im just gonna sit here and wait for bowl

OH GOD!!!! You dont think shes going to go all 'rise above it'...that would be so disappointing

Can Bowl give everyone a heads up as to when she'll be back so we can prepare the popcorn in advance? Ta.

Is yours GCSE, or not that up to date?

Cackle. This is going to be good.