New guidelines - we aren't allowed to refer to natal sex

[Maryz]

According to KateMumsnet:

"We also thought it might be useful to clarify our thinking about general terms for trans people. Having said that TIM is not okay, it seems a bit illogical to allow other terms which hang upon natal sex."

Well that's that really, isn't it.

We are all being told to pretend that men have become women.

Am I going to be deleted/banned for this post?

I'll go along with TWMNBN. And instead of him/her she/he use PP (personal pronoun). Anyting to make MN see the stupidity of what they are suggesting.

A tiny, tiny group of people are attempting to rewrite the English language and assault women's rights and we are supposed to let them because of feelz.

I don't think so.

This reminds me of Maggie Thatcher banning Sinn Fein leaders' voices on TV - so the TV companies employed impressionists to read the words instead.

TWMNBN ( pronounced twimbean?) sounds good. I was happy to use transwoman before....but not now.

My line in the sand is any biological male who has murdered or harmed women or children. I'll call them men.

So when a transperson murders or harms anyone, they are no longer trans?

byebye pronouns. Japanese seems to leave them out most of the time.
Time for English to move with the times

want a job as pronoun eliminator consultant!!!! BRILL and
write stuff so has a clue what is going on.
There has got to be money in it

It's very simple all women deserve the same presumption that they are women. That includes any trans women who assert they are women. So we need to either accept what all women are women if they say they are or all women need to prove they are women. That's out in the world and on Mumsnet.

It is discrimination, harassment and oppressive to stereotype one particular group of women as not women make them prove their womanhood when other women aren't required to.

If people want a system where we all have to prove we are women and Mumsnet bring in a system, I am happy to send them my birth certificate so they can put "sex verified by Mumsnet" on my profile. Otherwise, I suggest we get on with respecting what everyone says and ban all those posts saying as a generality that trans women are not women. That is a sweeping generalisation which is wrong in at least some cases and is a breach of the new guidelines.

Snappity define woman.

we need to either accept what all women are women if they say they are
No we dont.

It's very simple all women deserve the same presumption that they are women. That includes any trans women who assert they are women

If I assert I am Elizabeth the First do I get to send you to the Tower?

Bore I'm not using transwomen out of principle now

Same. Stopped with that courtesy after Skepticat got punched. Won't be going back now.

No we dont.

You don't but the mods do because they are subject to the Equality Act

So is using the word “trans” out of bounds too? the only reason someone is a trans person is that they were born one sex but want to transfer into leaving like the opposite sex. Otherwise they’re not trans.
So TIM and TIF are very much correct terms.

leaving - living

"That is a sweeping generalisation which is wrong in at least some cases"

Could you elaborate?

I mean are you of the school of thought that they are literally female following [arbitrary line], or are you referring to the fact that some transpeople have legally changed via a GRC, or are you invoking intersex? Or maybe all three?

You don't but the mods do because they are subject to the Equality Act

The mods will be fine because they are not posting that transwomen are men.

That makes the word woman meaningless.

As you say, some men who identify as women are clear that they are not women. You're really in favour of banning them from here? For the crime of acknowledging reality?

Isn't that discrimination? For being not the right kind of trans?

The Equality Act lists sex as a protected charicteristic.

Women, are adults of the female sex.

Its isnt an identity for men to dress up in.

The wprds for gender arent man amd women.

They are masculine and feminine.

So The Sex That Cannot Be Named can be feminine. Thats a gender.

They can not be women.

"If we can't refer to transgender people by their sex, then people can't refer to men as women either, surely?"

If truesex is off the table then wrongsex must also be off the table.

That makes the word woman meaningless.

No. We either accept that everyone is a woman if they say they are or require everyone to prove that they are. That applies here too - Mumsnet needs to treat everyone equally.

I am happy to send Mumsnet my birth certificate, as I say, if they bring in a system. Are you?

Well, I could send the original that my mum was given when I was born with "girl" on it. Can you say the same?

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make snappity

How are you defining woman Snappity?