New guidelines - we aren't allowed to refer to natal sex

[Maryz]

According to KateMumsnet:

"We also thought it might be useful to clarify our thinking about general terms for trans people. Having said that TIM is not okay, it seems a bit illogical to allow other terms which hang upon natal sex."

Well that's that really, isn't it.

We are all being told to pretend that men have become women.

Am I going to be deleted/banned for this post?

[ToeToToe]

I think we could rename it GenderNet.

Some Forum suggestions:

-Gestation
-Chestfeeding
-Gender chat
-Gender activism
-Gender Theory
etc

The "women's health" forum will have to go - that's transphobic.

Mumsnet Campaigns will need a complete overhaul. This thread - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/3211564-MNHQ-here-the-impact-of-birth-on-womens-bodies-wellbeing-and-sex-lives mentions women's bodies. Clearly transphobic.

Sort it out HQ - are you going to ban us all? If so, I'll see you fabulous GC feminists on the other side (GC Reddit) So long! And thanks for all the fish!

[Hideandgo]

I didn’t read it that way at all. She is talking, as she said, about terms for trans people which hang upon natal sex. It’s pretty obvious why those terms for trans people are offensive.

But don’t let that get in the way of a good outrage fest.

[Hideandgo]

LastGirl, do you think you’re being funny?

[LastGirlOnTheLeft]

If a male being called a male is offensive to him, then I suggest he seeks counseling and stop navel gazing so much! We ALL get called things we don't like - what makes them so damn special? 😡

[Maryz]

Ok, maybe my heading should be "when talking about trans issues we aren't allowed to refer to natal sex".

Higher standards for FWR, obviously.

We can say what we like on AIBU, but let's not upset men in the feminism section.

[R0wantrees]

Peoplesnet?

cf Ireland, 'people who need abortions' new legislation following referendum?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3260503-Trans-Voices-For-Appeal-Complain-About-Together-For-Yes-Campaign

'people with cervixes' cancer campaigns?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3265653-At-your-cervix

'people who are parents' on birth certificates- current case in court?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3271504-Transgender-man-gives-birth-and-wants-to-be-recorded-as-babys-father

[Hideandgo]

You couldn’t have given a more perfect example of why mumsnet has to add some guidelines around basic decency when discussing transgender issues.

[Hideandgo]

Maryz, just to spell it out for you and other confused people:

"when talking about trans PEOPLE we aren't allowed to refer to THEM by their natal sex".

[ToeToToe]

You couldn’t have given a more perfect example of why mumsnet has to add some guidelines around basic decency when discussing transgender issues.

Women's issues. We're here to talk about women's issues.

[Scrumplestiltskin]

Clearly Mumsnet must want us to branch out from feminism chat, and start talking about trans issues in more trafficked boards, such as AIBU and anything else which is relevant.
Do the rules apply there? (genuine question)
Also wow this is depressing.

[Pratchet]

We can say what we like on AIBU, but let's not upset men in the feminism section

Word

[KittyPerry77]

Banning generic terms for TW which refer to natal sex is not even-handed. It frames the debate as people being phobic towards a group of women - trans women. If a term like TIM is used it is clear that it is not phobia like wanting to leave out French women, tall women etc but is because of the fact that they are not women at all. Sorry to see Mumsnet do this.

[R0wantrees]

So we have male, female and people?

[ImagineBeing]

I and most of the population go around in real life, calling people by their natal sex. MN and some people can on occasion control us online, they can't in our homes and in real life.

[BabyItsAWildWorld]

Fucking hell MNHQ.

You have truly tied yourself into an absurd knot of deceit in your aim to not give 'offence'.

And you know who you're doing this to protect? Men.
And who is being told to shut the fuck up? Women. The female kind.

That should tell you everything.

How the hell did it come to this?

I will not say people with penises are women. It's a lie.
And every one knows it.

When people are making you lie through coersion, sirens should be going off all over.

[SeahorsesAREhorses]

Why don't we just say that women cannot use words that make men sad. If men are sad then naughty women must stop using their words, even though they are just stating facts.

[Hideandgo]

Ok Toe, let me rephrase that to ‘when discussing transgender people in the context of women’s issues’. (Not that mumsnet users don’t simply discuss transgender issues on their own at times. Like when someone has a transgender child etc. )

Again, deliberately obtuse.

[Maryz]

GardenGeek, I wouldn't presume that at all. They might delete and ban, it depends (wtf it depends on I have no idea). KateMumsnet has used the words "probably" and "likely" - so basically none of us know what exactly is allowed and what we will be deleted/banned for.

It's unfair. MNHQ are basically saying "we might let you speak, but remember we can delete you at any time if we want, depending on our mood/what we think you are implying/how many people are reporting/which of the mods are on duty".

It's a control issue - we are being kept on our toes, not knowing exactly what we can and can't say. This, together with the "three deletions and you're gone" rule means noone can safely say anything factual about trans issues without fearing a ban.

[LizzieSiddal]

Surely we can just say Trans woman and we all know what their natal sex is?

[BabyItsAWildWorld]

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

To the barricades.

[Scrumplestiltskin]

Does this mean that when talking about a trans person who raped people with "her" penis, and only later transitioned while in prison, we must not refer to "her" natal sex when discussing whether or not it is ethical for "her" to go to a women's prison?
Because if Mumsnet says we don't have to, they're acknowledging it's just a bullshit, polite lie, meant to coddle transgender people's feelings, and not at all the truth.
So what is it: will Mumsnet enact the insane misogyny of forcing us to call "women" who raped females with their penis "her", or will they be horribly transphobic?
Honestly, they can't keep a foot in each boat forever. And as MUMSnet, the boat they choose probably shouldn't be the one filled with cock.