New guidelines - we aren't allowed to refer to natal sex

[Maryz]

According to KateMumsnet:

"We also thought it might be useful to clarify our thinking about general terms for trans people. Having said that TIM is not okay, it seems a bit illogical to allow other terms which hang upon natal sex."

Well that's that really, isn't it.

We are all being told to pretend that men have become women.

Am I going to be deleted/banned for this post?

Trans people find their bio sex distressing on some level - so let's not have a collective expression for them which insistently defines them by their bio sex

I find it extremely distressing when my identity and legal protections are appropriated by individuals from the class of people who have repeatedly sexually assaulted, harassed, stalked, exploited and discriminated against me. I reject absolutely any collective expression for them which colluded with this appropriation.

Dunno if anyone already linked to the thread where it all took place www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/a3277316-Mumsnet-moderation-of-trans-rights-and-gender-critical-issues-II?msgid=78662138#78662138

*colludes with

I find the infringement and removal of my class of woman by men distressing on every level, not some level - every level.

I thought this was where I got to discuss that with other women.

I thought this was where women were entitled to speak openly.

How can a site called MUMSNET be cowed by a few men who by definition can never be mums?

THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES ON!

JuzzaL - maybe MNHQ didn't watch Happy Days and aren't familiar with the phrase 'jump the shark'?

It's ridiculous. We're given a load of new rules we have to abide by, yet not one tiny bit of clarification. It's a bloody stupid and ridiculous state of affairs.

other terms which hang upon natal sex

Could we have a list? I wouldn't want to use one accidentally.

Are woman/girl/man/boy allowed?

JuzzaL it must be sharkphobic or summat.

Should we also ban all of the weight loss threads and the use of words like fat and thin in case the anorexics among us become distressed?

Juzal

That's incredible, as I seem to recall Gibb has said that her partner is a transwoman and was upset about misgendering.

Someone asks the following question.

You have as I understand it a biologically male partner who chooses to identify as female.

And Gibb answers

No she is biologically female

So the question doesn't get deleted but the repost paraphrasing this exchange does!

Come on @mnhq how can this exchange be discussed without triggering the delete button?

The sad thing about all this bollocks from a few is that your average person is identified with it. One of the leaders of my child’s club is living as the opposite sex to which they were born as so is a colleague. No one has really cared. They are respectful, it’s a non issue in how they function. No dramatic using of the ladies loo, starting debates, going into women’s space. Just calmly living their lives as they are comfortable and being left to it without comment. I don’t even know their views on the debate, just like I don’t know most peoples. I interact with them as humans and they have been respectful.

Now with all the news, TERF calling etc its people like this that are drawn out of peaceful lives and suddenly a focus. I’ve known one for many many Years, in their fifties and they’ve done fine without standing in women’s only positions etc.

This site is becoming a laughing stock!

CurrentCurrant

Erm, will bollocks get you banned

I agree there will be collateral damage but the aggressive trans activist haven't given them a second thought.

I am still Spartacus.

And this is ridiculous.

We can all see what the emperor is wearing.

It's 'nowt'.

Can I ask, as a natal female - if everyone thinks I'm a man, does that make me one? Of course it doesn't. So why is it suddenly true if I tell everyone that I think/believe/know I'm a man?

What makes the difference?

That’s what I mean.

Perfectly pleasant people are living non conforming lives and suddenly it’s all about a few activist extreme behaviour. Toy throwing out the Pram, so people like me tbh, your average person ends up more and more wound up and defensive of my space and it all gets less rosy. I’m your average person, didn’t give a damn before, whereas I’m going towards happy to marching in the street in protest

Jesus fucking Christ. It really is over if basic factual information cannot be stated without sanction.

So to take *@katemumsnet at their word@

it seems a bit illogical to allow other terms which hang upon natal sex."

It is illogical to allow the words 'female'. 'Biological female'. 'Woman'. 'Girl'.

'Cos what the fuck other words 'hang' upon 'natal' sex? Apart from human?

I'm going to do that again, if anyone's reading, as my grammar/bold stuff went awry.

So to take @katemumsnet at their word

Kate: "it seems a bit illogical to allow other terms which hang upon natal sex."

So it's now illogical to allow the words 'female'. 'Biological female'. 'Woman'. 'Girl'?

'Cos what the fuck other words 'hang' upon 'natal' sex? Apart from human?

Can we no longer use ds or dd?

Im just going back to this...

*If a poc group tell you some of the terms you are using is racist, you can bet they are.

If a muslim group tell you some of those terms are islamophobic they are.

If lgb people tell you some terms are homophobic they are*

Its funny how people keep bringing this up as an argument but when females say no to males (or to anything really), then its the females that are always wrong! We're unreasonable! We need to know our place. Funny that eh?

Woman are saying NO to the sexist, misogynist, famale erasing, homophobic idiology. We are allowed to do that. We are allowed to say that. Woman means something. Biology is reality. Feminism is for girls and women!

We know that when we 'centre' our reproductive systems some trans rights activists feel that we are being unacceptably exclusionary. If they bring down fwr will the pregnancy board be next?

#boldfail!

Im tired. Its been a very long day