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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

New guidelines - we aren't allowed to refer to natal sex

681 replies

Maryz · 14/06/2018 11:44

According to KateMumsnet:

"We also thought it might be useful to clarify our thinking about general terms for trans people. Having said that TIM is not okay, it seems a bit illogical to allow other terms which hang upon natal sex."

Well that's that really, isn't it.

We are all being told to pretend that men have become women.

Am I going to be deleted/banned for this post?

OP posts:
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6
garam · 14/06/2018 22:39

*Im just going back to this...

*If a poc group tell you some of the terms you are using is racist, you can bet they are.

If a muslim group tell you some of those terms are islamophobic they are.

If lgb people tell you some terms are homophobic they are*

Its funny how people keep bringing this up as an argument but when females say no to males (or to anything really), then its the females that are always wrong! We're unreasonable! We need to know our place. Funny that eh?

Woman are saying NO to the sexist, misogynist, famale erasing, homophobic idiology. We are allowed to do that. We are allowed to say that. Woman means something. Biology is reality. Feminism is for girls and women!*

No one is saying females are wrong in any way, in fact as has been stated many times all the surveys about various trans rights put the majority of women in support!

well apart from one single study from a dodgy scottish site written by a man who had to have a restraining order put on him from another woman, who framed the question ridiculously, yet has been championed on here in the past as it's the only single survey that goes against the trend.

Spartacus · 14/06/2018 22:43

This site is called MUMSnet.

How very transphobic.

Tsk.

spontaneousgiventime · 14/06/2018 22:46

Bloody joke, I've had a post deleted for calling a (what the fuck to I call them) man presenting as a woman a male name beginning with T.

leyat · 14/06/2018 22:51

Actually Wings Over Scotland did not have a restraining order against him, an Express journalist reported some tweets as harassment to the police, tweets that were not even sent to her and that remain on twitter to this day for anyone to see, and the police decided not to take further action.

As for the polling question, WOS had Panelbase carry out the same poll in both Scotland and England, Panelbase - who are polling experts - have to approve the wording of the question, which they did after consulting the Market Research Society as well, and all three had input into the eventual wording, and they never pose questions they deem to be leading or misleading in any way. It doesn't matter who commissions a poll, it's the pollster that sets the standard.

Both polls, one of 1000 adults in Scotland and the other of 1000 adults in England, carried out months apart, came up with identical results, which is a sign of good polling if ever there was one.

Then we have Mumsnet, the largest online space for women in the UK, 12 million unique visitors monthly, nearly resolutely gender critical and against self ID.

There are no surveys regarding the GRA so not sure what you are talking about re that, but there have been those two polls, and there's a reason TA's aren't commissioning their own.

thebewilderness · 14/06/2018 22:54

*Saggarmakersbottomknocker Thu 14-Jun-18 22:21:15

Can we no longer use ds or dd?

Probably ok for now so long as you do not refer to them by their natal sex or any term that hangs on their natal sex like male, female, boy, girl, man, or woman.
Keep in mind, however, this new rule may only apply to the special class of natal males which must not be named.

JuzzaL · 14/06/2018 22:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IamXXHearMeRoar · 14/06/2018 22:58

Can we just say wannabees?

leyat · 14/06/2018 23:06

My suggested collective term is 'men who say they are women' - this can also include those who also may not actually identify as trans but are male predators who want to take advantage of policies such as self ID in order to access women's spaces and places.

Hideandgo · 14/06/2018 23:10

There is so much wrong with this whole thread. People are going further and further with their offensive comments. Emboldened by each other. It’s utterly shameful.

SupermatchGame · 14/06/2018 23:14

Can I ask, as a natal female - if everyone thinks I'm a man, does that make me one? Of course it doesn't. So why is it suddenly true if I tell everyone that I think/believe/know I'm a man?

What makes the difference?

The difference is that you are trivialising transgender identities. You are reducing it to a thought experiment in which you attempt to show the invalidity of transgender identity.

This has nothing to do with trans people.

Bespin · 14/06/2018 23:17

Agree threads like. This just end up. With peoole. Pushing and pushing and. Then wondering why they are deleted

Pratchet · 14/06/2018 23:18

You are trivialising womanhood saying it is possible to experience it without female biology. It's distressing and upsetting for women here, and policing our language, when you don't even need to be here to read it, is just bullying.

IamXXHearMeRoar · 14/06/2018 23:19

How about not trivialising women, how about not reducing the class of women to a though experiment instead of a scientific fact?

Fucking delete me, see if that changes any of the facts. It won't.

I think we should do a poll to see how many people were live and let live, wear what you like, gender is fiction, who cares

UNTIL

a teeny tiny group of disturbed power hungry men from a very small minority of society decided that women were getting above themselves again and need squashing. Then a bigger group of political and business men who were also concerned that uppity women were costing them money saw a great women squashing bandwagon and jumped on it.

The best bit about all of this woman squashing is it has the added bonus of diverting the public's attention away from brexit, refugees, trump deals, the annihilation of the vulnerable, public service extinction in the guise of being a worthy woke cause.

This is the best bit of propaganda since facebook.

Spartacus · 14/06/2018 23:19

So what makes an identity other than 'I believe this about myself'? Upon what absolute truth does it hang? Beyond belief?

I've seen plenty of women's issues trivialised by trans rights activists. Is that OK?

Pratchet · 14/06/2018 23:23

Yy Roar like the trans advocates who say we have to stop talking about FGM because it's 'cissexist'.

How's about that for trivialising the reality of having your clitoris sliced off with a rusty razor blade and your vagina stitched up.

Pratchet · 14/06/2018 23:24

Or on abortion, when it's described as cis privilege. How's about that for trivialising.

Pratchet · 14/06/2018 23:25

Someone said every time transactivists accuse women of something, it's because they do it themselves. And here we are.

GibbertyFlibbert · 14/06/2018 23:26

"LGBT overall in the USA have lost support in the USA. Or should I say the T lost them that support because of the bathroom bills."

I think it is more that Trump and Pence are no friends of LGBTI people. Transgender people in the military, for instance, have been totally silenced and others aren't feeling particularly safe whereas anti-LGBT groups have been emboldened.

LadyLance · 14/06/2018 23:29

Can we just refer to everyone by their chromosomes? After all- it's biological fact, isn't it?

So if we say transperson (presumably fine) is it ok to say transperson with XX chromosomes, or transperson with XY chromosomes. Y'know, so that it's clear and all.

I'm so upset that mumsnet are capitulating.

SupermatchGame · 14/06/2018 23:30

So what makes an identity other than 'I believe this about myself'? Upon what absolute truth does it hang? Beyond belief?

The integrity of the person saying it.

I've seen plenty of women's issues trivialised by trans rights activists. Is that OK?

No it's not. As many of us keep saying here, those extreme activists do not represent the majority in anyway.

LadyLance · 14/06/2018 23:32

Oh and for the record I find people with penises trying to use women's spaces distressing but whatevs. And a certain type of poster (everyone on this thread knows the type).

Personally, I suggest that we all report posts from those posters- you know, the disingenuous TRAs. Report every single one of their posts- make this more of a hassle for mumsnet than it's worth. Because I bet that's what they do to us.

And I find their posts distressing.

SupermatchGame · 14/06/2018 23:35

Because I bet that's what they do to us.

They probably don't. The new rules state that unwarranted (vexatious) repeat reporting will result in suspension.

GibbertyFlibbert · 14/06/2018 23:35

"So if we say transperson (presumably fine) is it ok to say transperson with XX chromosomes, or transperson with XY chromosomes. Y'know, so that it's clear and all."

Unless you are certain that someone is the biological parent of a child, how do you know whether they are XX, XY or something else? You can guess but that's not the same as knowing.

Pratchet · 14/06/2018 23:35

If the don't represent you, how come you never speak up against it? How come you're here, on mumsnet, when you could be taking out side against those gross extremists?

It's because they are cover. They are getting laws changed, bullying the media and politicians, and transadvocates piggyback that extremism, into their campaign to remove women's spaces.

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