How will we know if we have lost good women?

[loveyouradvice]

I fear we will lose some of our strongest most vibrant voices, torn down by the current wordspeak policies..... Can we keep a record here of those we lose? I do NOT want to forget them.

I thought it was so telling that the GC would have happily kept all language (even the abhorrent Cis and Terf) ... while the trans-allies wanted to curtail as much speech as they possibly could....

To all strong GC voices - Please DO NOT leave us - your voice counts for more here than on any other forum.... Mumsnet is watched by the world and will be responsible for our keeping women and girls safe .... even if you have to clip your wings a little to get your message across, please hang on in here ... IT IS SO IMPORTANT

The actual saying is that on the internet no on knows if you are a dog but I think calling a woman a dog is rude so I use potato instead to say that we have no way of knowing who anyone really is.

Transactivists come here deliberately to goad and gaslight feminists, and when women respond with humour instead of anger it's called 'picking on'

I can't now even remember what the subject matter of the thread was which induced the "hilarious" vegetable based insults. I don't however recognise your description of it.

My recollection was a poster who expressed a different view point was picked on. The responses descended into attacking her by one poster telling her she was a man which was backed up by the potato posts. Those posts were deleted. I don't recall much humour in it.

I thought it was bullying and the response to the deletions was the classic bullies' response of "what have I done wrong?"

It's true Lass and you know it. No one is allowed to laugh at the One True Faith.

The actual saying is that on the internet no on knows if you are a dog but I think calling a woman a dog is rude so I use potato instead to say that we have no way of knowing who anyone really is

The poster on the thread which started this had a long MN history. Nothing suggested she was not a woman- many of her posts referred to issues re children and childbirth. I can't remember exactly who called her a man. Your potato posts backed up that calling out and they and the original call out were deleted.

I didn't post about potatoes. I'm not very funny. I like people who are.

It's true Lass and you know it. No one is allowed to laugh at the One True Faith

The deletions on the thread which started this potato stuff were not laughing at a concept. They were personal attacks on a poster.

You are telling porkie pies, Lass.

Transactivists come here deliberately to goad and gaslight feminists, and when women respond with humour instead of anger it's called 'picking on'.

Oh yes. I have no comment on the potato thread, I wasn’t on that one I think or if I was I missed the incident. But the use of humour is vital. Time and again we see the pattern of a new poster coming in to put a rather dodgy viewpoint forward. They will argue endlessly but if you can just stay calm and have some gentle humour, I’ve found that it takes about seven post exchanges and they blow up. I’ve had some absolute vitriol directed at me in those situations. And I’m happy to let it sit there on the board. That person can’t hurt me. But leaving their words there is informative. They can goad me all they like - my superpowers are Science and Zen Calm.
Of course I respect people’s right to have abuse directed at them removed as well. That’s also a valid ask.

But humour is important. When it crosses the line to mobbing or personal attack is when the mods should step in. The cake threads have produced some very enlightening responses that show Male rage in all its glory. And some good recipes...

I'm happy for anyone to be pointed in the direction of the Trans Widows thread. We've so far not been targeted or criticised, if that is a possibility I'm fine with it being smoked out.

I have asked @MNHQ for clarification that the thread be allowed to stand, and to continue in the same vein, but I've no serious worry that it will be pulled. Mumsnet has a proud history of enabling women in difficult relationships to support each other and I can't see that changing.

If they apply these rules to the rest of the site it is really going to put a crimp in women's ability to talk about medical issues.

"Sheila Jeffreys just said at the WNTT event that MN is a commercial enterprise and is shutting down our language. She also said this shows the hetero patriarchy is strong."

It's not the hetero patriarchy shutting us down, it's a tiny handful of angry, self-entitled men.

When my dd was about 8 she was accused of bullying by a classmate. I was called into the school and given a bollocking about it, as was she.

I was surprised, because dd was very quiet and shy. so much so that I was worried about her being bullied at the time. Having talked to some other mums, it turned out that a girl was following her around the playground at every break time shouting "stop bullying me, stop bullying me" - dd was terrified of this child, and just tried to escape, but didn't say anything back.

All this reminds me of that. Posters coming on here, pontificating, telling us all what to say and do, and when we try to walk away, or be humorous, start telling everyone we are bullies.

You know what everyone who contributes to this forum is valuable, every person who contributes to the debate and talks about it in real life. Every. single. woman. who contributes to FWR. All of them.

And problem is that people say it was multiple posters ganging up on one poster.

Well there's multiple women here and transactivists know that when they cross our threshold. If they arrive alone, they can't come in the door and demand a one to one fisticuffs. They just use any old excuse to plead victimhood.

No I am not Bewilderness. But you know what you can do, so please report my posts , if you have not already done so.

I did not call them a man. You know I didn't because you backed off your false accusation by saying you do not remember. I do not have a habit of calling people men.
You have a right to view the interaction in as negative a light as you choose but you are not telling the truth about what I said and did.
I have reported your post as a persona attack because that is exactly what it is.

Oh good please report my replies too and this one. That will give me my 3 strikes.

Your potato posts were backing up the poster who called out the OP as being a man. As is always the point of them.

I am not backing off false accusation. You use them to try to discredit posters because you can't think of a better argument.

This is the personal attack by you in th post that I reported:
That isn't quite accurate. You have a habit of deciding that posters who don't express opinions which you deem to be sufficiently womenlike must be men. You are not the only one poster who does that.

Please report them then. I stand by what I said. You leapt to back up the attempt to discredit that particular poster with your disingenuous "potato" comment.

Whether you call posters whose opinions you wish to stifle "potatoes" or "men" the effect is the same.

That's disingenuous lass. Bewilderness didn't call anyone a potato.

It's just silly to claim that she said 'you are a potato'. It didn't happen. Very misleading of you.

This is pointless, Lass. You are caught in a lie. Have your own post removed if you repent of lying.

Bewilderness was joining the long history of 'what if' ad absurdum in the style of 'if that's justice, I'm a banana'.

Also very pointless to for people to complain about being called a man when they don't know what it means.

At the risk of pissing off Lass even further, I feel this is all getting a bit you say potato, I say...

don't strike me!