White Men are the Most Discriminated Against Demographic

[BoodeBeep]

My boyfriend has just said this to me. His reasons were women and ethnic minorities get schemes/help/AWS etc. I asked why exactly he thinks they have them, who they were trying to equal women up to etc. He said we should have a meritocracy and I agreed but explained we haven't ever ever had that and not all men are there on merit. I asked if he thought the reason there wasn't 50/50 represention was because women just weren't up to it and he said of course not but what other explanation is there?

I left it because there is just no getting through the complete arrogant certainty that he is right despite having done zero reading around the subject, having zero experience of being a woman/ethnic minority and seeing and hearing the experiences me and many other women have.

It's so frustrating. He's generally great but blind on this issue and obviously unwilling to think about it in any depth beyond how it may affect him should he fall victim to the discrimination of an all women shortlist.

Do men ever really get it?

I couldn't date such an idiot, sorry.

He’s a fool. You don’t want to continue to be with him, do you?

Yes, I do want to continue to be with him. He isn't an idiot just completely blind to his privilege. Or that the concept of privilege exists.

I asked if he thought the reason there wasn't 50/50 represention was because women just weren't up to it and he said of course not but what other explanation is there?

Lol “what other explanation is there?” , how about he actually thinks about it for a minute?

He isn't an idiot just completely blind to his privilege. Or that the concept of privilege exists.

Read your own words again. He doesn't understand that the concept of privilege exists, and yet he's not an idiot?

If you marry this man and have children with him you will regret it. If he has got to adulthood - 20s? 30s? - without this basic understanding of how the world and human dynamics work then there is no hope for him.

(Although I'm half interested to know what his "other qualities" are.)

Does he also think the Earth is flat?

He didn't say 'what other explanation was there', I asked him that. He said it was legacy but would sort itself out with meritocracy. I said it clearly isn't so initiatives were created to expediate it. He thinks it's discrimination and you might miss out on excellent male/White candidates.

No, he isn't an idiot, it's part of male privilege that they simply don't need to think about this stuff. He has lots of excellent qualities and as he isn't personally sexist (beyond normal socialisation) he doesn't seem to realise how many other people are. He hasn't experienced it. It's just frustrating he won't listen when I tell him it exists and how.

No hope for him, idiot, fool etc.? Fwiw I didn't understand sexism and feminism until my mid twenties. I was annoyed about a few things etc but I hadn't joined the dots. I see it now, everywhere and I truly wish I didn't. Ignorance was bliss.

No he doesn't think the earth is flat. He is in denial about the scope of sexism as it doesn't affect him. Not comparable.

Cheers for the support and understanding all.

Of course he's personally sexist!!!

You need to consider, now that the scales have dropped from your eyes, if you can continue to be with someone this dense. Or stupid. Or ignorant. (Delete as applicable)

I asked if he thought the reason there wasn't 50/50 represention was because women just weren't up to it and he said of course not but what other explanation is there?

50/50 representation in what?

If you're a White Male, you continuously receive messages that you're privileged and your life is easier than other people. Disagreeing with that gets you anger and mockery. Hard to think of any other group that regularly gets you such attitudes. Jews, perhaps.

Have him read this. Maybe read it together and talk through it: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3082251-Men-whose-lives-are-facilitated-by-women-how-did-this-happen

Give him the benefit of the doubt while you try to open his eyes.

But also consider the option that he’s not a very deep thinker. And consider now a good time to talk about things like who if any will take a career hit after kids? How is labour within the home divided now? Etc.

I think his comment probably comes from a place of frustration, identity politics tells individual poor uneducated men that they have power they definitely don't have. Clearly in comparison to poor uneducated women men have more power pound for pound.

Represention everywhere oldman from politics, to boardrooms, to resident single parents, to those in poverty, to primary school teachers, cleaners, stay at home parents, CEOs etc. Why aren't things 50/50.

Men aren't told their lives are easier. They are just told that if it's hard, it won't be down to their sex or colour, which is a probability with other demographics.

We have been together a whie. Children between us aren't an issue and I don't facilitate his work. He lived alone until we moved in together so hasn't had success at the expense of a woman.

You are making excuses for him. I'm sorry, but any man who's grown up over the last 20 years cannot possibly realise this. So either he is ignorant (in the true sense of the word) or he is deliberately putting this view forward.

Do men ever really get it?

Most get a darn sight closer that your fella I'm afraid!

It'd be interesting to get an honest answer from him as to why he believes women don't hold as many positions of influence as men. He may be more sexist than you realize. I'm not saying he IS. It could just be that he's been brainwashed and needs some time.

But a lot of men who want to respect women still have underlying beliefs that come from a very sexist culture. Such as---Women don't get ahead like men do because they aren't as logical as men, they can't make as good as decisions because they're more emotional, don't have the drive men do....things like that.

"He thinks it's discrimination and you might miss out on excellent male/White candidates. "

Positive discrimination is illegal as per the Equality Act 2010.

Positive action is legal as per the Equality Act 2010.

There is a difference between the two

Of course I'm making excuses for him, I love him and want us to be together and happy. Doesn't mean the excuses have zero merit.

I would just love him to understand it. Does everyone else's partners get it? That's what I started this to find out.

Wowsers, he is telling you who he is, listen to him rather than the fantasy you might have of who he is/could be.

Does he read, OP? Sometimes the easiest thing is just to hand someone a book rather than exhaust yourself by trying to explain it all.

Then don't enable him.

Do men ever get it?

I dunno. I think they can’t experience it but they can certainly learn to see it. I’ve been pretty sick through both pregnancies and the way I’ve been treated has made DH go from ‘well meaning but trusting the system works’ to ‘bloody hell, men just would not put up with that shit.’ He’s certainly more aware now but he’s always been pretty feminist tbh.

I think sometimes people need to see it right in front of them - having kids has certainly brought a lot of my own feminist leanings to the fore.

So yes, I’d say my partner gets it. He got it before, but after seeing how I was treated at work and by healthcare, he gets it more.

If he’d continued to deny it then (just speaking for myself) I don’t think we would have had a future together

Aware of that thanks FMS.

He thinks positive action is discrimination.

How am I enabling him?

He said it was legacy but would sort itself out with meritocracy

If men wanted a system of meritocracy that's what we'd have. They don't want it and they aren't working towards creating it.
All this 'don't worry yourself about it, leave it to us and it will somehow miraculously sort itself out' is just more of the same old paternalistic bullshit.

Things don't ever 'sort themselves out' because there is no great master plan where we all work for the same goal of equality.
Men cant even see half the problems women face, not even when its in their own field or right under their nose.
How is it possible to believe that meritocracy will just happen? Do they really believe that the men who don't deserve their positions will quietly give way?

Does everyone else's partners get it?

Mine pays exceptional lip-service to it, and so far he's usually put his money where his mouth is. He's had some massive fails though where I've thought, "nope, just doesn't get it". But he never makes the same mistake twice. That's what's important I think, a willingness to learn and to do the right thing (which is often not the comfortable thing).