Why is misgendering a big deal?

[FortunateCookie]

Hope someone can help because I’m really trying to understand why not affirming someone’s identity is that big of a deal.
I understand that it’s polite to go along with whatever someone’s chosen gender identity is, but I can’t believe that it’s actually a big problem if you don’t?
Surely if your friends and family accept your identity, it doesn’t matter if someone at work doesn’t?
Would it really make someone suicidal?
Do any of the trans organisations say why it is so important?
I just don’t get it.

No. I am a woman.

"I'm not a Galaxy! How dare you! I'm a chocolate bar!"

Both trans women and cis women come under the umbrella term of "women", but in some discussions, such as this one, it is easier to separate them and a word you can just put in front of it such as "trans" or "cis" is a lot easier than having to do some kind of waffling phrase like "a person with a vagina" or "a non-biological woman".

the issue is that many women don't have a gender identity and don't identify with the stereotypes associated with femininity. That's the issue with cis, plus the use of it to dismiss, diminish and other women.

Why would not fitting into feminine stereotypes mean that you're not a woman?

If you don't have a gender identity, then you wouldn't be cis, would you? Don't get me wrong, I do know that many agender etc. people don't mind being referred to as women, but depending on the discussion surely they wouldn't be called cis? Or if they were, they wouldn't mind, just as they don't mind being called "women"?

Also, how is being called "cis" dismissive/diminishing?

"More often than not, that "point" will escalate into something nasty."

Yep. Not that long ago ago my partner assaulted by a woman who misgendered her. There was a witness but the police lost the witness's contact details

I've genuinely never understood what's the point of being angry about the term "cis."

Really?

From someone who expects us to accept that calling a male 'male' is devastating?

What's the point of being angry when people call a man a man?

If you are adult, you are adult.
If you are human, you are human.
If you are male, you are male.
If you possess all three attributes you are a man.

It is completely accurate to call adult human males men, because that is the definition.

It is completely INaccurate to call adult human females 'cis' women, because as has been advocated, the cis part relates to a pairing between the psychology of all females AND a concept called 'gender' that is as mythical as unicorns.

Yep. Not that long ago ago my partner assaulted by a woman who misgendered her.

Your partner assaulted a woman who misgendered her? Was this the cause of the bleeding?

Both trans women and cis women come under the umbrella term of "women"

Only if you redefine 'women' to mean something other than just 'adult, human, female'

What definition of 'woman' do you have which includes both transwomen and adult human females, but not men?

Can you come up with a definition that includes me, and my sisters, and Laverne Cox, but not my DP or sons? Because I have asked many people for one, and have yet to get one.

It is completely INaccurate to call adult human females 'cis' women, because as has been advocated, the cis part relates to a pairing between the psychology of all females AND a concept called 'gender' that is as mythical as unicorns.

Oh FFS! This one takes the cake! You can't just discount words because they're reliant on a social construct. Language itself is a social construct!

"Trans women never come under the umbrella term of women, as they are men."

You are aware how much hurt you cause by saying this. People end up needing medical attention. Do you really not care about people?

You are aware how much hurt you cause by saying this. People end up needing medical attention. Do you really not care about people?

How can that end up in people needing medical attention?

"Can you come up with a definition that includes me, and my sisters, and Laverne Cox, but not my DP or sons? Because I have asked many people for one, and have yet to get one."

"Woman is someone with (or who could get) a female passport" gets close.

Your partner assaulted a woman who misgendered her? Was this the cause of the bleeding?

I think the phrase "by a woman" implies that the woman insulted the partner, not vice versa

No. Trans women never come under the umbrella term of women, as they are men. Women come under the umbrella of women. That is the point of an umbrella.

Only if you redefine 'women' to mean something other than just 'adult, human, female'

Women is generally affiliated with gender, not sex, but due to widespread delusions that they are one and the same it is sometimes used interchangeably.

But selectively feminine/masculine words are part of the construct, not an innate part of XX or XY. As I said before.

"Why would not fitting into feminine stereotypes mean that you're not a woman? "

I didn't say it did! In fact the point I was making was that feminine stereotypes are not anything that makes you female. I am a woman (adult human female), this is a simple fact. It tells you nothing about my capabilities, personality, dress sense, etc etc. Sometimes my sex is relevant, most of the time it is not.

I don't have a gender identity, but I'm not trans. I am an adult human female, that's got nothing to do with my identity. Cis is not relevant to me.

If you don't understand how cis is used to other and dismiss and indeed abuse then I find that hard to believe.

"Woman is someone with (or who could get) a female passport" gets close.

LOL!

"How can that end up in people needing medical attention?"

Because of the psychological distress you cause. It is well-understood that with stalking, for instance, that the drop-drip-drip of low grade incidents can cause psychological harm over time. Being repeatedly deliberately misgendered has a similar effect.

Now you understand will you stop?

Can you come up with a definition that includes me, and my sisters, and Laverne Cox, but not my DP or sons? Because I have asked many people for one, and have yet to get one

Am I being dim, or does "someone whose gender = woman" work fine?

Rosesandflowers - I think you’d struggle to find a “Cisperson” on this thread, if you are so concerned about mis-gendering why do you persist in doing it to women ?

Women is generally affiliated with gender, not sex, but due to widespread delusions that they are one and the same it is sometimes used interchangeably.

No, women are the adults of the female sex.

Gender doesn't actually exist. You seem incredibly confused.

I am happy to be described as a cis woman. I see no offence at all.

There’s no such thing with regards to Trans people as far as I’m concerned
I will refer to someone with a penis as “He” and someone without a penis as “she” which isn’t misgendering it’s reality.
I dont need to be told I’m a woman, i am an adult human female so that’s what I am.

Im I being dim, or does "someone whose gender = woman" work fine?

As you are discounting the several billions of women who haven't got a fucking clue what you are wittering on about, yet still are oppressed due to being actual females - yes you are being dim.

I don't have a gender identity, but I'm not trans. I am an adult human female, that's got nothing to do with my identity. Cis is not relevant to me.

So your gender is not a woman?

In that case, no, you wouldn't be cis. Gender is something of a spectrum, you know. Not everybody falls on the left or right side of it.

I am happy to be described as a cis woman. I see no offence at all.

What makes you feel happy to be cis and not happy to be a woman?

“Someone whose gender = woman “ yes you are being dim. I am a woman. I don’t have a gender identity, nor do any of the women I know. All the women I know have different personalities and tastes. Some have cropped hair, scrubbed faces and post-mastectomy happily don’t bother to wear a bra with a prosthetic breast. Some only wear dresses. Some are mothers, some are not. All women, none have a gender identity.

This very much reminds me of the exhortations from religious people that we "respect" their beliefs. You can't force someone to respect another person's belief. All you can do is force them, or strongly encourage them, to behave as though they respect that person's belief. So as an atheist you can think "this is nonsense" without ever saying so out loud.

It's the same with pronouns. You can persuade people to use "she" for a man but you can't change the way they think. And most people will go along with it for a quiet life while inside they don't believe it for a moment. You start hitting trouble in cases like Maria Maclachlan's when the magistrate told her she must refer to the man who attacked her as "she". I don't see how someone who has physically assaulted another person is entitled to respect from his victim.