Why is misgendering a big deal?

[FortunateCookie]

Hope someone can help because I’m really trying to understand why not affirming someone’s identity is that big of a deal.
I understand that it’s polite to go along with whatever someone’s chosen gender identity is, but I can’t believe that it’s actually a big problem if you don’t?
Surely if your friends and family accept your identity, it doesn’t matter if someone at work doesn’t?
Would it really make someone suicidal?
Do any of the trans organisations say why it is so important?
I just don’t get it.

Christ Gibb he’s really done a number on you
There was a thread here a while ago for survivors of Marriages where one party had transitioned. When you feel ready I suggest you look it up

@DailyMailClickbait Reading the replies I am
seeing where everyone is coming from. You can't expect anyone to know that you identify as a female if you look like a male. It's putting people in a situation that isn't right. It could result in a person losing their job for being discriminatory even though they did nothing wrong.

Nice side step

Pity you can't modify your use of language so all of us women will accept what you say - if you get my sarcasm!

Also, it's odd that you leap on me for postulating about something in your life... but felt quite free to leap on and post about all of us here being anti trans!

For what it's worth, you could ask your trans friends what they think... if you have time for that.

I used to think that, it's a gender expression but the feminist community on YouTube has made misgendering into an abusive thing and if you question someone's gender expression you are a bad person. It's difficult to get out of that mindset. I do feel that it's went too far but you know the backlash that comes from not agreeing with that on certain social media platforms.

You used to think what? You think that feminists are the ones that made 'misgendering' into a thing? Really?

"For what it's worth, you could ask your trans friends what they think."
Gosh thanks, if only I'd thought of that sooner.

I did NOT say that every poster here was anti trans, and the reason I asked for my post to be removed was exactly this, that if I so much as mention some posts as having an anti trans tone I get piled on. But hey, you just crack on and make up some more stuff you think I said.

There you go again. I didn't clan you said every poster was anti trans.

In the post you have had deleted, so we can't now see how you apologised for us, you said there were some posters who were not anti trans, to which I replied yes, almost all of us are not anti trans, if only you could read what is posted without twisting it. And here you go, twisting again.

Ooh! My apologies... I did say that - in my second response to you

Ah well! I guess I was more irritated by your having apologised for the trenchant views of women her than I thought!

@TERFragetteCity the feminist community on Youtube is where I first heard that misgendering was abusive. I used to think that being non binary wasn't a thing.

I used to think that, it's a gender expression but the feminist community on YouTube has made misgendering into an abusive thing and if you question someone's gender expression you are a bad person

"Misgendering" is not a concept introduced by feminists. It is the battle cry of TRAs and their advocates who use it as "evidence" that people are "transphobic" for not recognising that someone that looks like a man in a dress, is a woman. It is the battle cry of people who refuse to accept basic biology - that you can pick whatever damn gender you want but your sex class is down to your chromosones.

When was the last time you saw a feminist beating up a trans-woman?

When was the last time you saw feminists wearing masks and physically preventing women from entering a public place?

Postscript:

Don't forget that a number of trans-women refer to themselves as feminists. But their version of what they call feminism has trans issues at the heart and centre. This is not compatible with what radical feminists are trying to achieve - which is a total rejection of gender constructs and the liberation of women and girls from male oppression. You cannot have feminism which "centres" a man.

the feminist community on Youtube is where I first heard that misgendering was abusive.

Please stop @ing me. I am already in the conversation.

I can't say it better than DMCB above to be honest. What you are seeing is not feminism.

SuperDandy apologised for us? No one here is accountable to you, SD, so don't trouble yourself.

And a common follow-up to a feminist sharing that belief is being accused of misandry - which is a weak argument and completely untrue for the overwhelming majority.

We have fathers, brothers, husbands, partners, sons, friends. We value them and recognise that men can and do face issues which don't affect women. But this doesn't change the fact that women face daily discrimination and danger from men which is entrenched within society, and that the same does not apply in reverse.

Examples:

• The requirement for gender* pay gap reporting took effect this year. The stats show that fewer than one in seven companies are paying a woman more than a man (BBC News). That's despite the existence of the Equal Pay Act 1970.

• An average of two women a week - A WEEK - are killed by a man that they know, most often their current or former domestic partner. Women's Aid runs an annual Femicide Census; the 2016 results show that 113 women were killed and 75% of them were murdered in their own homes.

*I dislike the terminology used here, because really it should say "The sex class pay gap".

Apologies for @ I was just answering questions.

You appear to think that this is a hostage negotiation, Gib. It's not, it's a chat board. People don't have to obey you, and now that you've made it clear that you will only engage if you're obeyed why should anyone bother discussing anything with you?

Don't forget that a number of trans-women refer to themselves as feminists.

Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women.

Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists is the term applied to Feminists who exclude males from their feminism for what should be obvious reasons.

"Feminism is about equality for everyone" is one of the propaganda slogans of the backlash against Feminism.

It has been about five years ago that one of the largest MRA groups on the intertubz organized a rat-fucking effort on Youtube and Facebook creating dozens of false feminist pages and groups. Everyday Feminism is a perfect example of a misogynist false flag operation posing a feminists.

tl;dr version: If it does not center women and promote the interests of women as a class it is not Feminism.

Raven please don't think this is about being "anti-trans". We know there are people who genuinely believe that they were born in the wrong body and of course they should be heard, understood and supported. But hearing and understanding does not mean appropriating the hard-won rights and protections of another group.

You can't expect anyone to know that you identify as a female if you look like a male. It's putting people in a situation that isn't right. It could result in a person losing their job for being discriminatory even though they did nothing wrong.

The idea that anyone should just know that someone who looks like any other random male identifies as a woman and preemptively choose the pronouns they'd prefer and so on is absurd. It's a situation designed to trip people up and put them on the back foot at worse, and the result of such extreme narcissism that the individual concerned just assumes that everyone else will naturally be alert to and aware of their preferences at best.

When "oblivious narcissist" is your best case scenario...

Daily I don't think this is anti trans, it's think it's important to discuss these topics. There is an issue with safety if we aren't allowed to question these things.

OK. I’m going out on a limb here so don’t shoot me down. But you can choose to take offence or not. I work with someone with a broad Scots accent. We had a trans woman in our care, she was in fact intersex and had mostly lived as a man before making the change and maybe as such is coming from a different place than some trans. Anyway my colleague ended a conversation with “Och, you’re a good man you are”. There was a rather horrible pause, at least I wanted to fall through the floor, but I said “Don’t worry X, she’s just Scottish and calls everyone Good Man”. Moment averted, laughter all round, no complaints. I dread to think what would happen with some of these fragile young trans if she said that, when you read about teachers getting disciplined for calling a group of girls plus one trans “Girls”.

But there are lots of times when one can choose to take offence or not. A friend of my parents, noting my obvious pregnancy said “oh my daughter’s having a baby soon too, but she’s one of those elderly mothers”. I said “same as me then”. He was so mortified, it was really funny and I certainly didn’t take offence.

And what about those occasional cases of twins where one is coloured and one is white. What insolent remarks they have to endure, and their parents, as people question their parentage, make wrong assumptions about them being best friends, not twins, ask outright rude questions.

Really, life is too short. Let it run off like water from a ducks back. Feel sorry for the other person’s ignorance if that seems appropriate. See the funny side. Or just ignore it.

OK. I’m going out on a limb here so don’t shoot me down.

This request often prefaces the instruction that we "suck it up, buttercup" by people who view themselves as the very model of a modern tolerant person.
Until something offends them

What the fuck is that post? Ah those fucking Scots randomly insulting people with their inability to discern sex? Rude people and racism ah Jeasus, that's all fine

Fuck off with nonsense. It's you who has the issue

This thread is er... wild.

Would not appear so.
Well it appears so to me Italiangreyhound. I think most people would feel we are more civilised and enlightened in the west than 100 years ago.

Some have. Some have not. But caring about ourselves, our privacy and other women is not necessarily dependent on having had our personal boundaries violated.

Some trans women, possibly more now as the umbrella is widening, retain enough male characteristics that they may be perceived as men. I can understand that and see how it could be disturbing in intimate situations for someone who has been violated by a man. I don't know what the solution is there. The EA allows exclusion of a trans woman from a sexual abuse support group, for example, if the service feels their presence would prevent other women from accessing. But for general situations of privacy where that isn't the case the law will have to decide how these potentially conflicting rights are resolved.

Those women who don't care if non-females are in their intimate spaces are welcome to campaign for unisex places.

If they don't care then they more than likely see them as women, so why would they? If they see those trans women as women why would they even think that they should be in a separate space?