Why is misgendering a big deal?

[FortunateCookie]

Hope someone can help because I’m really trying to understand why not affirming someone’s identity is that big of a deal.
I understand that it’s polite to go along with whatever someone’s chosen gender identity is, but I can’t believe that it’s actually a big problem if you don’t?
Surely if your friends and family accept your identity, it doesn’t matter if someone at work doesn’t?
Would it really make someone suicidal?
Do any of the trans organisations say why it is so important?
I just don’t get it.

Woman suffers actual physical harm, abuse and potential threat to life. Woman is traumatised. Woman told she has to 'get over' trauma by counseling etc so that she doesn't upset any men who say they are women.
Man says he is a woman. Man is traumatised if someone calls him by a pronoun he doesn't like. Man told his trauma is totally justified and that all efforts will be made to make sure he is never traumatised again.

No, the woman should get some form of help for her problems so she is able to function happily and healthily within society Are people deliberately misinterpreting, or am I just being extremely unclear?

A woman who is unable to interact with any man without extreme fear and distress will spend the majority of her time either terrified or inside her house. This will not change based on the behaviour of those around her, she is afraid of men, point blank, no matter what they do.

A trans person for whom misgendering is a direct trigger for suicidal thoughts, traumatic flashbacks etc. will only have issues if they are misgendered. As such, not being misgendered means that they will be fine, though they should probably also receive counselling to work through things if their reaction to misgendering is borne from trauma or mental health issues.

And where there is a mismatch in how you perceive your biological sex it's a psychological condition.

Conversion therapy is abhorrent. Whether it's trying to "convert" a child away from their sexuality or gender identity. It's something I will never support. Is that the definition Mermaids gives out? When did they say that? If so how very garbled and unprofessional … and just plain wrong. My only real understanding of Mermaids was that they helped trans children/parents of trans children adjust and provided resources/help.

On twitter, from their official account, in response to a question of how they would define a "trans" child and a "cis" child. Mermaids, by the way, now has charitable status and is one of the official Amazon charity partners.

As a victim of domestic violence and controlling abuse, I find the gaslighting and entitled demands that I accept men as women when I don't believe it upsetting. I find it triggers traumatic memories of being coercively controlled. Perhaps TIMs, and you, could consider that.

A woman who is unable to interact with any man without extreme fear and distress will spend the majority of her time either terrified or inside her house. This will not change based on the behaviour of those around her, she is afraid of men, point blank, no matter what they do.

Such a woman can be helped to get over her trauma through accessing help. This help is most effectively delivered, in the first instance, in a space where males are not around.

I find the lack of respect for my boundaries by these males very telling of their male socialisation.

I wouldn't lie to prop up a psychological delusion.

I'm assuming you're not actually qualified to diagnose someone as delusional?

Yes you can possess a gender identity. It is your internal sense of what sex you are.

But sex is an objective set of organic, physical attributes, not a sense of self.

If someone has an internal sense of having 3 eyes, not two, would you call them a three eyed person?

Me too Ereshkigal

And where there is a mismatch in how you perceive your biological sex it's a psychological condition.

Thought by many in the field to also have a biological component.

How would society accommodate this? Female-only workplaces, shops? This would be a huge accommodation, and how exactly would you put into place female-only roads or streets? There's no way that a society could manage to accommodate her not coming into contact with men. She'd have to deal with this herself - by essentially not going out. Not healthy. At all.

We accomadate that by having female-only spaces as refuges where these women know they will be safe. Y’know, safe spaces. Where women can work through their trauma in a supportive environment with other women. We already have these spaces. Women worked very hard to make these spaces. These spaces are currently under attack for being “transphobic.”

For a trans person the adjustment we're talking about is literally saying "she" instead of "he", or vice versa. In other cases on the gender spectrum, "they". Might be a bit confusing at first, but we're not talking rebuilding an entire city.

How exactly are going to get everyone, everywhere, at all times, in all circumstances, to always use the correct pronouns? It’s one thing to expect coworkers to address a trans person by their chosen names and pronouns - and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that. And it’s one thing to expect this as a politeness, and those that don’t as rude. But how exactly do you police the world’s language to this extent? There are rude people out there. There are also people who have ethical and philosophical objections to this. Wouldn’t it also be a good idea to help trans people become more resilient, the way you think women traumatized by men should be helped to be resilient?

And, if somebody finds misgendering extremely triggering and there are no other factors, surgery will probably happen at some point. This will solve their issue with misgendering

How so?

If someone has an internal sense of having 3 eyes, not two, would you call them a three eyed person?

People with a sense of having 3 eyes wouldn't become less delusional and more functional if they were given a third eye or treated as if they had. Many trans people do become more functional when given appropriate transition treatment. There is an evidence base to back that up.

3 eyes not so much.

But sex is an objective set of organic, physical attributes, not a sense of self.

Yes, thank you, MsBeaujangles, exactly this!

Such a woman can be helped to get over her trauma through accessing help. This help is most effectively delivered, in the first instance, in a space where males are not around.

Yes, obviously. I've never said anything to the contrary.

But she does need help to live life happily. That's what everyone is questioning.

On twitter, from their official account, in response to a question of how they would define a "trans" child and a "cis" child. Mermaids, by the way, now has charitable status and is one of the official Amazon charity partners.

Really?

Awful. Can someone link the tweet?

I find the gaslighting and entitled demands that I accept men as women when I don't believe it upsetting. I find it triggers traumatic memories of being coercively controlled. Perhaps TIMs, and you, could consider that

Is it entitled for someone to ask you to say "he" instead of "she"? Remind you that you are, for the most part, being asked. Just as I couldn't "force you" to agree with what I'm saying, a trans person asking you to use their preferred name/pronouns is not "forcing" you.

If - and this is in the kindest way possible - you are actively contributing to the detriment of someone else's mental health because you don't like doing things which you perceive as being coercive, I think you do need some help. I have the utmost sympathy for your situation and think it's awful that something has happened to you. But if the belief that you are being "forced" is solely what means you would find it difficult to respond to a trans person's request to call them by the correct pronouns - especially if this is directly harmful and not just uncomfortable for them - then your past experience is impacting your life and how you interact with others. This won't just impact them but it must be impacting you too.

"It makes no sense to send a patient that's bleeding to a psychiatrist unless they were convinced of something weird and the Dr. suspected mental health issues were at play, eg, like a man thinking he's having a period, which is as ridiculous as it is impossible."

No. Prejudice which is why another doctor took the appointment a few days later

But if the belief that you are being "forced" is solely what means you would find it difficult to respond to a trans person's request to call them by the correct pronouns

Man rapes woman and judge in court tells woman that she needs to refer to her rapist as 'she' as that is how he now identifies.

You ok with that I take it?

@rosesandflowers, non-trans ISN'T required, just the word woman will do, seeing as that's the correct term for an adult human female.

It's more about how they ride roughshod over my boundaries as a woman and no one gives a fuck, roses. And this has come about because of the ridiculous lie that these psychologically disordered males are women. And my wish note to perpetuate the erasure of women as a biological oppressed class. But you forget all the cross dressers and other males wishing to play power games with women. Perhaps you just aren't very well informed about these issues. It's not just about dysphoria now.

*my wish not

Do you think women should be forced to be props in the misogynistic sexual fetishism of cross dressers, roses?

Man rapes woman and judge in court tells woman that she needs to refer to her rapist as 'she' as that is how he now identifies.

You ok with that I take it?

That would be an example in which 'coercion' is much more appropriate so not really very relevant, if I'm honest.

I think that's an odd priority for the judge to have. If this was given more priority than the actual rape, that's strange and wrong. (Has this ever happened?) If it was, I don't know, added as a footnote or the rapist's lawyer brought it forward as a request it's not odd exactly, though still perhaps out of place at a rape trial. I'd imagine they would focus on that. Would it be important from a legal POV if they had legally transitioned?

I think the woman would have grounds to refuse if it really didn't sit right with her.

non-trans ISN'T required, just the word woman will do, seeing as that's the correct term for an adult human female.

Established, thank you.

Prejudice which is why another doctor took the appointment a few days later

That's horrific

I thought that was much more common in the US than here. Isn't it illegal in the UK?

Especially after the ordeal your partner had gone through. to both of you x

No. Prejudice which is why another doctor took the appointment a few days later

So you confirm they were bleeding thinking they were having a period?

Have a look at this roses, since you like the men so much

Many trans people do become more functional when given appropriate transition treatment.

Good for them. I'm not their therapist any more than I expect any concessions from them other than to have the decency and respect for women to stay the fuck out of female sex segregated spaces.

I think the woman would have grounds to refuse if it really didn't sit right with her.

Well no, a woman who was recently assaulted has already been told to call a man a woman in court. That is the point.