Feminism and trans rights, please enlighten me

[CornishPasty82]

Hey, Been meaning to post here for a while. I’ce been reading a few of the threads on here lately and I’m wondering - Is it possible to be a feminist and support transgender rights? I would like to think it is but reading on here it seems many people think it isn’t?

I do understand some of the issues with “self ID” (ie people with penises in women’s prisons, shelters, etc), but then again - How many women in prisons have been sexually assaulted by trans men? Is this actually a real problem? (Not goading! Genuinely interested in the facts/people’s viewpoints).

I have lots of fabulous friends and a husband (all feminists😀) who raise their eyebrows and think I’m a transphobe for talking about some of the issues with “self ID” so I’m keen to inform myself more.

I’m interested to here from people with all different view points, and I’m especially interested to see actual data/facts on cases where self ID has resulted in violence against women (or not).

Hope it’s okay to post this, and thanks in advance🙂

Their sex may be legally valid but they are biologically still the same sex they were "assigned" at birth. By arguing against the law we are inherently arguing against their factually inaccurately claims of what sex they are.

Twisting what the Equality Act says into what you wish it means is not going to work here.

As the OP who started this thread, I have yet to see the results of a large scale study demonstrating that transwomen commit (sexual) violence to the same extent as men.

As the OP who started this thread, I have yet to see the results of a large scale study demonstrating that transwomen commit (sexual) violence to the same extent as men.

Why wouldn't they?

Especially now that the umbrella of 'transgender' is so wide it encompasses near all people on earth anyway.

As the OP who started this thread, I have yet to see the results of a large scale study demonstrating that transwomen commit (sexual) violence to the same extent as men.

You know that there are TIM convicted of sexual offences against women. What risk do you think is acceptable?

No. The argument being presented here yet again is that some transwomen have committed rape so that all transwomen should be regarded as risks to women and not allowed in women's spaces

No. The argument being presented is that, whilst some male bodied people with penises pose a threat to female bodied people then all male bodied people should be kept out of female bodied people's safe spaces amongst other things.

That's one of the reasons we have sex segregation in the first place.

If male bodied people have an issue with that and feel discriminated against because of it then, rather 'bullying' female bodied people, why not work towards ending male violence? Why is the focus on women accepting the risk rather than stopping men from posing it in the first place?

I wonder what percentage of TIM have a GRC?

There's about 300 issued per year. Let's use a figure of 14 years to get about 4000.

A "low" figure that's often quoted for the percentage of transgender people in the population is 0.3%. Let's call that 1 million.

Doing simple sums gives us 0.4% of transgender people have a GRC.

But my how noisy they are.

OP, you answered your own question on the previous page;

CornishPasty82 Tue 05-Jun-18 13:49:22
Gibberty which countries already have self ID? And may I ask, how is it possible to assess whether this has caused any problems if those people are now registered as female and therefore are presumably included in female crime statistics?

So the often quoted parts of the GRA dont apply to over 99% of TIM?

OP you could always fund a "large scale study" if you aren't happy with the stats and evidence that has been presented to you over here?

floeer hahahaha, as a research scientist I really wish science actually worked like that.

It isn’t necessarily about sexual assault (though that’s a consideration). Why not house gay men in women’s prisons?

Many women won’t feel comfortable sharing space (cells, showers) with a male stranger. That’s equally true of hospital wards, the showers at my gym, dorms in a youth hostel.

I’m absolutely sure my brother isn’t going to rape me. I still wouldn’t want to shower in front of him.

OP as someone who is also in the field of research, yes it does work like that. You are surely capable of conducting your own study if you are in a research field? You'll know all about how to undertake your own research (which begs the question why you started this post in the first place?)

Upstart my previous question only applies in countries where self Id is already in force. In the UK we would be able to collect this data.

From the weekend - women suing a women’s homeless shelter in the US that forced them to shower in front of a trans identified male.

Okay Floeer, I hope to one day be employed by the amazing research institute where you work, where you can invest large amounts of your own time and money to research projects you choose yourself on a whim, without having any publications in that field. Sounds like an amazing place.

OP that is why I stated "you could always fund" - nothing about getting someone else to do your own research. Plenty of under-graduates undertaking their own research with next to no funding.

Yes Floeer, and hardly any of those get published in respectable journals because of the reasons I mentioned above (lack of expertise and lack of resources).

But you are someone of research expertise so you should know and be able to conduct decent and reliable research. Plenty of postgraduates succeed! Perhaps you could even do a PhD in it if you are wanting to really open up this debate? Would certainly be seen as a fresh piece of research to the, currently, limited field.

Or, just do the research for your own satisfaction. If you are someone who works in a research industry you should be more than equipped to satisfy your own need for strong stats and data. You don't have to get as far as publishing but just follow good research practices like you do for your job.

I think the misunderstanding here is that our position has anything at all to do with transition, gender identity etc. It really doesn't. It's very simple: we know and can easily prove if necessary that people with penises have a propensity to use them to rape us. For this reason we want to keep spaces where we are vulnerable free from all people with penises, regardless of their other attributes (with the exception of infancy). It's not a trans issue.

This thread really shows how, as a scientific person I struggle to get my head around transgender rights.... It's all emotions and anacdotal evidence, can't have a rational discussion... It was in the new2a while back (dont quote me as I can't remember much) A researcher was barred from doing psychology research on the mental health of transsexuals who were years later regretted their choice as it was not policicaly correct. There is also an issue of free speach at univisities at the moment, with students not hearing controversial opinions.... I do think toilet policies should be research based esspesally as many attacks happen in public toilets (male and female). I know my school girl toilets were places for bullying...

as a research scientist

If you're a research scientist, then you surely know that absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Things we do know.

1. men (as a group) are a threat to women
2. single sex spaces provide some protection for women
3. 52 out of 125 trans prisoners in the UK are MTF transwomen who are either sex offenders or in the most dangerous category of prisoner. This suggests male pattern violence, it's nothing like female pattern violence.

Until there is proof that transwomen are a similar risk to women as men are (not a special, dangerous case, just having male pattern violence) then why would you put the safety of women and children at risk?

Sorry, that shoudl say:

Until there is proof that transwomen are NOT a similar risk to women as men are