Where do we draw the trans line....?

[loveyouradvice]

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

Th problem is that even post op, many transsexuals are clearly born male, and that’s a problem in sex segregated spaces. I think sex segregated spaces need to remain just that

Second time gaslighting has been brought up in this discussion, totally inaccurate to say pointing out that tampons don't reach the prostate is gas lighting lol

Its basic male anatomy

Is the focus for you really to be 'triumphant' about saying a tampon can't reach a prostate?

You've clearly got your priorities straight with this issue.

It takes two to tango, amazing how the people that fixate on my replies miss that simple fact

Ah! Not discussing in good faith then!

I shall leave you to it!

If some people want to stick tampons up their bum, well that's their prerogative.

I mean, I suppose in some ways it's relevant since said tampon-bummers are salivating at the prospect of getting used ones from women's spaces instead of the plain old new ones from Tesco!

I saw someone elsewhere make a point about AGP vs BDSM the other day. Something along the lines of - fine in the privacy of your own home or your own community spaces, but I don't see BDSMers rushing about getting laws changed so they can spank each other in the swimming pool changing room or force everyone to address them as Master or Slave because if you don't, they'll either commit suicide or punch you in the face.

if I say

of course you are right

3 times, does it exorcise fms?

gotta be worth a try right? Then we could stop talking about prostates

I saw someone elsewhere make a point about AGP vs BDSM the other day. Something along the lines of - fine in the privacy of your own home or your own community spaces, but I don't see BDSMers rushing about getting laws changed so they can spank each other in the swimming pool changing room or force everyone to address them as Master or Slave because if you don't, they'll either commit suicide or punch you in the face.

Don't tempt them!

Heavens above. The stuff fmsfms gets fixated on is a never ending suprise.

Quite special.

Does the word 'transplaining' exist yet?

I think we need to use this word as we seem to be learning about these delightful new pastimes, interests and hobbies we are discovering every day. Not to mention the new language one needs to learn before your accused of transphobia, bigotry and the rest.

On another note, what would be the possibility of campaigning for a third space? My guess is that's not the point - they want recognition as a woman and therefore this won't be good enough.

You're

There probably always has been people with 'unusual' fetishes. I admit, the idea of people utilising used menstrual products turns my stomach. I've told my daughters to carry a zip lock bag when they have their period to take the used items home to dispose of. Yes, the numbers are likely very small but even so...

but what harm could it cause your daughters spontaneousgiventime (apart from ick) ?

The harm is more likely to come to the person combing through clinical waste.

Sad that yet again women and girls are the ones having to change their behaviour rather than the perpetrators.

ReluctantCamper In a physical sense, none at all. It's the idea that their used products could be used to enable this kind of thing. Hence why I've advised to dispose of at home. Give them less reason to go into woman's loos if they won't find what they crave.

If this topic had been about race it would have been shutdown by now, to be honest I dont know what whats the matter with people & mums net, who hate a group of individuals it is clear as day that this topic and similar ones along with the ones members post on twitter, that this is intended to provoke hate and conflict in public bathrooms and other areas
you all should be ashamed of yourselves as should the CEO of mumsnet for allowing this to carry on

you are causing distress & anxiety to the trans community and this must stop.

reading through this threat you claim to be worried about fake news articles and shout fears of rape which is pathetic to be honest but the kind of people falsly shout rape should also be shame of themselves as should mumsnet for providing a service which targets transgender individuals

there is a fine line between free speech and stiring hate, mums net knows exactly what is going on here and when trouble sparks out in public places its mumsnets fault and they should be held accountable for each incident and the government should bill mumsnet for the cost to the tax payer for such incidents because I for one dont want my tax money to be wasted on the hate incidents that you have caused nor do I want other people to be harmed because of the actions of mumsnet

So distress and anxiety doesn't exist for those women whose spaces, by law, may be erased?

You really have to wonder why third spaces are not good enough. I think it's all about passing as a woman. It's basically down to jealousy for those trans women who pass easily.

@placemats these threads are intentionally made to cause distress and anxiety, people living their lives, harming no one, going to the ladies bathroom to pee are not harming anyone and you are targeting them for laughable reasons

I watched the latest Venice Allen video on Facebook.

She talks with two trans women - it was the trans women who invited her to talk. It was very enlightening. The trans women said they were called Terfs because they passed easily.

I saw someone elsewhere make a point about AGP vs BDSM the other day. Something along the lines of - fine in the privacy of your own home or your own community spaces, but I don't see BDSMers rushing about getting laws changed so they can spank each other in the swimming pool changing room or force everyone to address them as Master or Slave because if you don't, they'll either commit suicide or punch you in the face.

I mean, to be fair, some do, but it's greeted by eye rolling and "piss off, mate" rather than handwringing about inclusivity and earnest declarations that no amount of inconvenience is too much (as long as it's women being inconvenienced) if it will make people happy! Which is as it should be, and the normal response to people being unreasonable. The increasingly bizarre demands of TRAs are the exception in not being greeted that way.

I'm not touching the prostate thing, because that's the silliest attempt at a derail I've seen in a while.

the kind of posts hosted on here are hate and fear pushing posts which will cause hate incidents and not only put anyone at risk but also cost the tax payer, in my life time i have never had any danger using any public facility or any kind and this is the reality crimes are committed by all walks of life of all genders and races, do you fear them? do you fear critisians, social workers, builders, those who clean the bathroom????? there have been times i used the bathroom to find a male cleaner, cleaning in there, so do you make posts about male cleaners???

I'm not targeting anyone.

I'm merely voicing an opinion on what I've listened to and what I've read.

Next up.

The book I984 targets insert anyone here

Seriously? Hate crime will be committed because you J4nice posted on here? How are you able to speak out against this draconian imposition on you as a human with thoughts and ideas?

@placemats wow you watched a video on FB and use it to prove your argument

Yes, I'm sure that the sort of men who commit actual violence against trans people base their decisions on what a bunch of feminists say on a parenting forum. I mean, obviously.