Where do we draw the trans line....?

[loveyouradvice]

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

And I'm only mentioning it because you have mentioned how our behaviour is making you feel. If you hadn't I would just suck it up as women are always expected to do.

Humans cannot change sex, Janice.

This is not hate speech - people politely disagreeing with you on the web is not hate speech. It is a fact. A Male remains a Male. There is no mechanism for a human to change sex.

If this upsets you, and if you find that the answers you’re getting are causing you upset, I would suggest stepping away from the internet for a bit.

I'm a poor woman being mistresses card Scuse you!!??!!??

I've made no threats of suicide or any other nature

I wasn't addressing you. As pp said, not everything is about you.

Might be worth mentioning that 70% of transgender people have mental health problems either currently or at some point in their life.

YY. And they need decent, appropriate interventions.

Might be worth mentioning that 70% of transgender people have mental health problems either currently or at some point in their life.

True, yet they want to de-medicalise GNC when it needs it badly.

Where can I get an I'm a poor woman being mistresses card?

Hallmark do a lovely selection scarlet

the estimate was that anywhere between 30% and 60% of trans people would make at least one suicide attempt

There is much evidence that accepting a more gender critical or realistic view of oneself leads to alleviating suicidal ideation and improving mental health in gender confused individuals.
The trans cult causes feelings of despair and self hate. That is evidenced in the findings.

I was going to suggest Moonpig. Sorry, sorry, I'll get my coat.

Ereshkigal

I notice you skipped the bit about how distressed you are making me feel as a victim of DV by trying to control me, J4nice. Cuts both ways.

J4nice did the same thing with me earlier in the thread. They implied I had said some shitty things that I hadn't (MNHQ agreed and deleted) when I mentioned that those accusations caused me distressed J4 just ignored and returned to what about Me, me me.

Rinse and repeat

Oh, you've done it now, spontaneous !

It wouldn't surprise me if it's zapped.

That's the point. Which is why I encourage posters not to engage.

All those people are falling through the net. And will never need to come to the attention of medical professionals if they don't take hormones (non binary etc) or they buy them online (many trans people).

That's the point. Which is why I encourage posters not to engage.

You're right of course. I shall sit on my hands or try to.

There is much evidence that accepting a more gender critical or realistic view of oneself leads to alleviating suicidal ideation and improving mental health in gender confused individuals

I can personally vouch for that one.

Look, it’s not nice to say it, but if your self esteem is so fragile, so precious, that it will shatter into pieces the moment someone doesn’t lie to/for you, then you need a lot more help. Transitioning will not fix that.

People around you tiptoeing around you might be a stop gap for a little while, but what happens when a young child speaks the truth? Or an autistic person speaks the truth? Or when women just refuse to be blackmailed into shitting up for you?

Good one, spontaneous.

I suggest buying a mistress card at Clittons Cards. You have to be careful not to rub staff the wrong way, though, or it all comes to naught.

Or when women just refuse to be blackmailed into shitting up for you?

This is me Tru. I just won't do it. I will not speak lies to validate feelings. It goes against everything I believe in.

Or an autistic person speaks the truth?

I have autism and tip-toeing around TRAs and TRA ideology is tricky for me. It's pretty challenging for me not to be, ahem, forthright at the best of times.

TerfsUp Stop it, I'm behaving now.

I can personally vouch for that one.

It makes me happy to hear that, Trus.

I have always been, and still am, completely accepting of transitioned transsexual people of either kind. Never bothered me the slightest.

However, having experienced having my clothes borrowed and stolen by men for their kicks, stalking (on two separate, extremely disturbing occasions), and a smorgasbord of physical and intrusions from men with a narrow sexual interest and absolutely no compunction about lying to get what they want, I am 100% certain that it is a bad idea to let straight, physically intact male people who are aroused by wearing female accoutrements and demanding to be validated as women by women whether they want to or not, self-ID as women legally.

This does not in any way impact on what I feel regarding transitioned transsexuals. I don't think they should be lumped together at all - they behave differently and TIMs don't 'feel like women' in their communication at all. They come across as pervy, which is up to them in their own private spaces - but not to be imposed on others.

Bowlofbabelfish
Think carefully. Which of these numbers is bigger: 2 or 98?
i realise you have made many substantive contributions to this thread but this made me properly laugh.

Trus