Where do we draw the trans line....?

[loveyouradvice]

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

My woman certificate is in a box in the loft I think.

Are you me LangCleg. I did exactly the same thing!

Sadly I couldn't get out of cookery or sewing cos the woodwork and metalwork teachers were seemingly scared of me

@Bowlofbabelfish please confirm you can read?

I can indeed read and I confirm my literacy. I enjoy reading, and have done for many years.

I was abused

I do t think you were.

called a TIM yes somebody did use that term which is offensive is it? You are a male human being who identifies as trans. I would state that was factual. We cannot legislate for offence caused by facts. If you’d like to move to somewhere where beliefs are protected in law then there are some charming theocracies for you to choose from.

then called a pig no, somebody used a porcine based metaphor. When someone says ‘bowl; you swim like a fish! They are not actually calling me a fish. They are making a comment on the verb in the metaphor. Upon my swimming. Not implying I am, in fact, a fish.

who was stood up by a woman (I am engaged btw) congratulations!

then repeately harassed by being called male

No again you’re confusing fact and harassment. Harassment is not being called Male when you are Male. Harassment would be something like someone following you in the street every time you leave home shouting abuse at you because you were trans. That would be wrong, unpleasant and you would quite rightly be able to report this to the police*

if I started abusing you by calling you offensive names that woman find offensive, woud that be ok with you?

I would object if you did it in person or if you personally threatened me IRL. If you’re just doing it on here then you can call me whatever you like.

if soI can think of a few words in the dictonary that would be up to you. I can’t stop you, and you can’t do me any harm from where you sit. So while it would be rude, it wouldn’t be a criminal offence - unless of course it crossed into threatening behaviour.

OH! So biological woman don't have a GRC? You learn something new on MN every day

I wanted to do woodwork but was shunted off to domestic science instead.

I wanted to play football, they made me play fucking netball instead.

No offence to all netball fans

Non conformists, and non gardening tools, one and all!

Sarahconnor1 I loathed netball and did distance running and swimming instead. I couldn't run for a bus these days.

Distance running used to kill me, now I'm not bad, my memories of netball, freezing cold in the middle of winter in a pair of shorts waiting for someone to pass me the ball. No one ever did cos I'm a shorty.

Ahh damn it I said I’d stay outside

I am a woman and calling me offensive names will not be tollerated and reported

Someone doesn’t have much experience of having empathy with women.

In case you didn’t notice women are very frequently called offensive names, and it is very much tolerated. Thankfully not so much on MN.

If you are so determined to be literally a woman you should probably get used to being called names and grow a thicker skin (like so many women are told to)

Not that I think TIM is an offensive name at all. It’s a perfectly adequate description.

Netball. Navy knickers... oh the horror, in a cold, northern playground. Corned beef legs all round.

Hi Janice, you can call me whatever you want. It's just words.

I'm not offended by any of the words you use. Why would I be? You're a stranger to me, your opinion of me means nothing to me.

Call me a bitch or whatever if you like. I know I'm not a bitch. Call yourself a woman if you like, I know you're a transwoman. You've been through a lot to get where you are now, and I really don't understand why you are not proud to be trans. Personally I don't care where you pee, but I do care that you are trying to make me deny reality by insisting that you are a woman.

You are not a man. But not a man does not equal woman.

I want you to be safe, respected and not discriminated against. But not at the expense of my own rights that I have and need because of my biology. Why can't you understand this?

Netball. Navy knickers... oh the horror, in a cold, northern playground. Corned beef legs all round.

This was us too until I refused and took up running. I'm also only a shorty so never got the ball.

Truscum

Please don't call me a "hoe" (sic)

Call a spade a spade, please

I've got a BAGA level 1 gymnastics certificate. If I recall, it includes Teddy Bear Rolls

A year ago my view would have been -happy to share female only spaces with post op trans. Now I think trans people need to fight for their own 3rd space. The self Id proposals have only hardened my views, women must hold the line here. We need our own spaces free from men.

Also, so funny that you think we'd object to cunt. It's been reclaimed dontcha know. I'm a cunty old cunt and no mistake

Are you me LangCleg. I did exactly the same thing!

Bloody fucking wanking touch typing. I can't even stop myself doing it to this day, and I'm still shit at it!

Except it wasn't touch typing. It was bloody bang-down-very-hard-on-the-keys-of-a-1950's-typwriter.

No Technical drawing at my school, woodwork or metalwork. Only cookery and needlework. At my Girls' School

A year ago my view would have been -happy to share female only spaces with post op trans.

This is the thing, isn't it? The TRAs are a gigantic juggernaut of QED.

Women: We're a bit worried about violent male people in our private spaces.

TRA: Fucking bigot TERF, you need a punch. Suck my dick. I'm going to report you to the police for hate crimes.

Women: Like we said...

Except it wasn't touch typing. It was bloody bang-down-very-hard-on-the-keys-of-a-1950's-typwriter.

It so was!

Line is Vagina - woman ; penis - man. Obviously those with gender dysmorphia do not apply to the above.

If vagina = woman and penis = man, what is person who has a vagina made from a penis?

A TIM.

Lang the #nodebate did it for me. Not only will women put up, but they'll shut up.
NO.