Where do we draw the trans line....?

[loveyouradvice]

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

Women shut up and do as you are told Where have we heard that before?

@spontaneousgiventime its the same tune you sing when you try to justify hate, thats where

Ah, I have missed Silly Sundays. Thanks!

J4nice Oh do behave. You came on here throwing your weight around and are now squealing like a stuck pig because the women here stood up to you.

you are using racial slurs @CuriousaboutSamphire reported

I think you'd be hard pushed to prove a case of harassment on this thread.

@spontaneousgiventime

J4nice Oh do behave. You came on here throwing your weight around and are now squealing like a stuck pig because the women here stood up to you.

so let me gets this straight, you called me a pig, others called me a TIM and now people are resorting to using the N word

I draw the line at biological sex.

A few years ago I assumed most transwomen were just normal people, who just wanted a wee in peace.

Then up pop people like J4nice

I happily used female pronouns out of respect.
When someone biologically male screams we must agree theyre female, its abuse, harassment, disabilist, to know the truth, I see gaslighting. It isnt acceptable for us, as a society, to be forced to lie. That isnt respect, its censorship.

I dont care what someone is legally. I want spaces for biological females only, so I can have privacy away from people who display such high levels of male socialisation and agression.

A male can be trans.
A male can not be a woman.

Ooh!

a) Singular, not plural
b) I don't think it's a a racist slur if their is no victim, it's just a word - and you alluded to it first.

Report away. I reported you for saying that being trans is a disability. Nasty!

"SO having a GRC indicates a disability?"

Yes. The Equal Opportunities Commission, before it was incorporated into the Equality and Human Rights Commission, had guidance which stated that gender dysphoria, when strong enough to require transition, was a disability for the purposes of the Disability Discrimination Act and the Equality and Human Rights Commission still recognise it is - although it is hard to find that in writing.

Misgendering someone with gender dysphoria is particularly scummy because it makes their dysphoria worse. It's morally equivalent to making fun of a blind person or someone in a wheelchair.

That also mean that a reasonable adjustment falls on service providers. So, for instance, providing access to toilets falls under disability rights legislation too. Keeping people with a female passport or driving licence out of female only spaces would almost certainly be challengeable as a failure to make a reasonable adjustment for the disability of gender dysphoria. The rad fems aren't looking in the right place - the real protection for many trans people lies under the protected characteristic of disability. To unpick that is going to be almost impossible :)

and now people are resorting to using the N word Shall I remind you who started that? You'll have to report yourself

Honestly.

J4nice

If one of us worked out who you were in RL got your number or email address and repeatedly contacted you with "U R a TIM" or whatnot maybe you'd win a case for a harassment crime and hate crime.

The point is none of us are doing that. We are not committing a hate crime by posting on the Internet.

You have no idea what a hate crime is or what harassment is.

Oh! They are BOTH TERFS!

J4nice

you are using racial slurs@CuriousaboutSamphirereported

Really! Either you have overplayed your hand or you really don't want women to speak.

@Hyppolyta

I draw the line at biological sex.

A few years ago I assumed most transwomen were just normal people, who just wanted a wee in peace.

Then up pop people like J4nice

I happily used female pronouns out of respect.
When someone biologically male screams we must agree theyre female, its abuse, harassment, disabilist, to know the truth, I see gaslighting. It isnt acceptable for us, as a society, to be forced to lie. That isnt respect, its censorship.

I dont care what someone is legally. I want spaces for biological females only, so I can have privacy away from people who display such high levels of male socialisation and agression.

A male can be trans.
A male can not be a woman.

this proves that the feminists who lurk here, have no respect for the law which states that I am are woman, it would not shock me to find that this website is full of criminals who dont abide by the law

@Sarahconnor1 the use of the N word is also unacceptable, wouldnt you agree?

OMG, I'm weak. I'm outta this thread until J4nice blows themselves inside out or the Police come knocking on my door.

so let me gets this straight, you called me a pig, others called me a TIM and now people are resorting to using the N word

No she used a porcine based analogy.
You are a man who identifies as a woman and is legally referred to as female - that is a statement of fact.

The rest appears to be you attempting to create a scenario in which you are being victimised and abused. Objectively, that is not happening on this thread.

You can of course use the services of a lawyer. They are rather expensive and will probably tell you the same thing.

Women stating that humans cannot change sex is not a hate crime. It is a statement of fact. If you feel very upset by such statements of fact, I would respectfully suggest that you step away from the internet

I don't know about respect for the law J4nice, have you considered showing respect for the common comma?

poor little beast.

You are correct, I have no respect for that law. That doesnt mean I am a criminal.

Female is biological.
A male can not be a female, nor a woman.
I find it disgusting and disrespectful some males refuse to acknowledge this and fight and force their way into womens spaces, crying they are the victims.

Why do you not campaign for third spaces, for transwomen?

No. We are only too aware of things called 'legal fiction' when law is passed in such a manner as to remove a perceived obstacle, or difficulty. There are lots of laws like that.

You are a woman in law, but yet not a woman biologically. It is not illegal to know that or to say that!

Misgendering someone with gender dysphoria is particularly scummy because it makes their dysphoria worse. It's morally equivalent to making fun of a blind person or someone in a wheelchair.

No it isn't. Just like we're not required to pretend that people who think they are made of glass actually are. Or that people hearing voices telling them that people are out to kill them are right and people are actually trying to kill them.

But I'm glad you admit that it's a mental health condition. I'd just like you to drop the abusive emotional tactics to force people to lie. You do realise this is disablist in itself towards many people with ASD?

Ive never used the word, but it was used in cotext as an illustration re inappropriate language, nothing else.

Also you are aware that there are exemptions for single SEX provision, don't you?

@Bowlofbabelfish please confirm you can read?. I was abused, called a TIM which is offensive, then called a pig who was stood up by a woman (I am engaged btw) then repeately harassed by being called male

you choose to ignore everything else

if I started abusing you by calling you offensive names that woman find offensive, woud that be ok with you? if so I can think of a few words in the dictonary