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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Where do we draw the trans line....?

712 replies

loveyouradvice · 02/06/2018 16:07

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 16:36

Misgendering is transphobia, and it is rife and is not being dealt with

I do not believe trans identified males are women, nor do most people, and we never will. You need to stop trying to control people. You can't control what people think and stopping them expressing it or forcing them to lie is a display of dominance. Especially by male people towards women.

Bowlofbabelfish · 03/06/2018 16:36

Believe me I am reporting and considering my legal options

There are no legal options for a statement like ‘transwomen remain Male.’ It is a statement of fact, devoid of intent. Legal options would rightly be available if someone threatened to harm you, threatened to expose you, threatened to do you some sort of harm. But not for opinions.

Sex is set. It cannot be altered. You can be referred to legally as female as that is your right as a holder of a GRC. You should not face violence, threats, or discrimination as a result of your transsexual status.

At the same time, you cannot legislate belief. You cannot actually change sex, that is a fact, and you cannot threaten people on here with legal action for stating a fact or an opinion.

If you think that people disagreeing politely with you on the web is a threat, you need to reasses and step away from the internet. Opinions are not violence.

As a holder of a GRC, you can be legally referred to as female.
I can state the fact that humans cannot change sex.

JuzzaL · 03/06/2018 16:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 16:38

With zero sense of irony.

Quite. But hey, shut the fuck up about your rights, women.

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:38

All they have are bullying tactics and throwing around accusations of "hate crime" with no understanding of what a hate crime actually is.
Then they escalate to threats of physical violence and often actual violence.

No actual logical argument.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:38

@spontaneousgiventime

"J4nice Last time. You're a TIM, your DNA says male. That is all I have to say to you. You will never police my thoughts and views, no doubt you will try, you will not succeed. I have nothing more to say to you"

I am consdiering reporting you to the authorties now, this is ongoing harassment and abusive, Is a hate crime. I am a woman, the governmetn says I am a woman, my birth certification, grc, and ID says I am female

to pick on me for my disabilities is out of over

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 16:39

At the same time, you cannot legislate belief. You cannot actually change sex, that is a fact, and you cannot threaten people on here with legal action for stating a fact or an opinion.

If you think that people disagreeing politely with you on the web is a threat, you need to reasses and step away from the internet. Opinions are not violence.

This.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:39

States what? Or do you think that 'misgendering' only works in one direction. It doesn't, and so, should it become a UK crime, cis and misgendering will be eqally illegal, for the same reasons?

But I have no idea if you meant that as the post of your I quoted / modified was a bit unclear!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:41

Ah! SO having a GRC indicates a disability? No...

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:42

J4nice
You do realise an actual crime needs to be committed first for anything to be considered a 'hate crime'?

Obviously not.

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 16:43

find it unacceptable that someone will force me to use counter-intuitive pronouns. It's psychological control.

I find it abusive gaslighting, as a DV survivor. I find it deeply upsetting to be controlled by the whims of narcissistic and misogynistic males, both then and now.

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:44

Please at least understand what a hate crime is before you make your threats.

I know accurate definitions of things are not a TRAs Forte, but still...

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 16:44

Ah! SO having a GRC indicates a disability? No...

Confirmed TERF! Most TRAs would say that was unacceptable transphobia.

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:44

Ereshkigal
Quite.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:45

@Opheliah that is incorrect and further shows the extent of the ignorance on here

JuzzaL · 03/06/2018 16:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:45

Irrefutable logic there, Erishkigal

Naught J4!

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:46

@Opheliah I would encourage you to report any threats, there are none

MsMcWoodle · 03/06/2018 16:47

A lot of people hold views I disagree with. I still think that they have a right to hold them (unless they are inciting violence) and that you can't bully people into agreeing with you.
This is Feminism Chat. It's about and for women and girls.
Anyone else feeling like we've been here before. Garden, I think.

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:47

J4nice

Oh for the love of god.

Here's a screen grab for you. Because I care about you.

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:48

Oops

Where do we draw the trans line....?
CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:48

Juzzal I have already told J4Nice on this very thread, about 30 minuets ago, that that is precisely what happened to me. A year ago I would have said she, now, not a bloody chance! Why? Cos, well, TRAs.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:48

@JuzzaL so you are blaming me for objecting to being harassed, called offensive names that are just as offensive as the N word

Nice

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:49

A hate crime needs to involve a criminal offense.

Misgendering on the Internet is not a criminal offense.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:50

@Opheliah

Malicious comunication, harassment, I could go on