Trans Voices For Appeal Complain About Together For Yes Campaign

[SunsetBeetch]

You couldn't make it up at this point, could you?

""Trans Voices for Repeal would like the..Together for Yes campaign..to formally acknowledge the pain their actions have caused trans people in Ireland, the negative effect their campaign has had on the mental health of trans people and the unnecessary nature of this exclusion."

twitter.com/doormatt134/status/1000620731468845057?s=19

medium.com/@transvoicesforrepeal/trans-voices-for-repeal-call-on-the-together-for-yes-campaign-to-formally-apologise-to-trans-people-84931f0fa85d

Lass, how are men and women defined in law?

If men can be either male or female and women can be either male or female, then what are the actual differences between the category of men and the category of women?

To be absolutely honest I would put money on it that for many employers if faced with a female candidate and a trans woman candidate they would pick the female candidate.

Computer techie industries and academia might be different but fitting in with the rest of the office and not rocking the boat counts for a lot.

So far as not employing women of child bearing age I can only speak for my own industry but that would eliminate over half the available workforce.

That is viewed as a feature not a bug.

if an employer does not employ women for that reason they don't get a free pass because they employ 1 trans woman and 99 men.

They would because the sex discrimination employment laws do not protect 'people who might get pregnant', they protect women.

I actually find this really upsetting. Do they not see how massive this was for women in Ireland - literally a matter of life and death. How can they be so crass, so fucking callous?

Could they not just let this one be?

if an employer does not employ women for that reason they don't get a free pass because they employ 1 trans woman and 99 men

They would because the sex discrimination employment laws do not protect 'people who might get pregnant', they protect women

I don't follow your point. The point I was making was exactly that - anti- discrimination laws prevent employers discriminating against one sex or another. If an employer is discriminating against employing women the fact they can point to one trans woman employee does not mean they were not discriminating against women.

@agentcooper I know. I was just thinking today about how many great feminists/activists I know who are lesbians, who've been involved in this and other campaigns over the years. And they've never once asked for a special shout-out or centred themselves. They happily contribute to the pro-choice campaign even though they are much less likely to have a crisis pregnancy than straight women. Because unlike TRAs, they aren't towering narcissistic arseholes.

at a simplistic level if an employer has 100 employees, 50 of whom are men and 50 of whom are women Depends on how you define men and women!

At the moment all of those men could be natal women, or all of the women could be natal men. How could you know?

Isn't that the point?

The point is the role named in the law are women. Sex discrimination happens without pregnancy. Therefore a 100 per cent male 50 per cent trans'women ' employment ratio would not be discriminatory. Taking on a TW not a woman would not be discriminatory because it would not be discrimination against women. Even though pregnancy is protected, potential pregnancy is not, and is assumed to be covered by the word 'women'. That cover would be erased.

The role = the people

Don't forget the point of the whole movement is to erase differentials. It's crazy thinking 'well they can habevthis because pregnancy will be protected'. Women will no longer be protected by sex discrimination laws because men can get pregnant too (apparently). Therefore there will no longer be a law that protects women.

I am blocked from that Twitter account despite having never interacted with them

I'm blocked from it despite never having tweeted. Ever.

This is no time to be doing anything that even risks watering down women's protection from pregnancy and maternity discrimination.

A Women and Equalities Committee report from 2016 found that Shockingly, pregnant women and mothers report more discrimination and poor treatment at work now than they did a decade ago.

The report found that the number of women forced out of work has almost doubled in that period.

It's just selfishness and narcissism. Any legislation designed to protect women can be applied to trans men easily enough when it's clearly about being female. Switch things around and remove the connection between "pregnancy" and "female", though, and it's inevitable that that will be used by the people who already discriminate against women every chance they get.

I'm pretty much at the "grow the fuck up, not everything is about pandering to your ego" stage with female TRAs. Nope, sorry, growing a scraggly little beard doesn't remove you from the category "female", which also means that policies designed to benefit women also benefit you, at least if you don't manage to sabotage them in moment of throwing toys out of the pram narcissistic rage.

Agree Pencils. Doesn't matter what is conceded, more will be demanded until women's rights are erased.

And yes, this is not a time to even consider concessions, this is a time to hold the line. Look to the parts of the US that used to have more abortion access than they have now for proof of how quickly rights can be lost.

Link to article discussing funding comparisons:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3260270-Michael-Biggs-Oxford-Sociology-dept-The-Open-Society-Foundations-the-transgender-movement-incl-comparison-with-funding-for-women

It's interesting to compare the way equality legislation is working for pregnant women and new mothers, and for trans people.

Whittle says: Since 2010, the Equality Act has been a huge success, and has greatly improved job security and access to housing, goods and services for trans people. We have seen the number of claims of employment discrimination, or discrimination when accessing goods, services, housing and facilities drop to almost zero

Wait, thought trans people were the most discriminated against group ever.

And now it's almost zero?

Rather swift U-turn there.

I've also noticed recently that the British survey on social attitudes which was previously often quoted to demonstrate the high levels of acceptance of trans women sharing women's spaces (eg public toilets) seems to have been surpassed by a survey highlighting transphobia and hate crime. I believe this is a recent Stonewall survey.

It's referenced in this recent Independent article which associates the issues with the hard right as other commentators have also done:
www.indy100.com/article/how-the-far-right-is-attacking-the-lives-of-the-transgender-community-and-what-we-can-do-to-stop-it-8369021?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Who are the Labour party to speak for all British women? Owen can fuck right off with that assumption.

Lazy thinking Popchyk. According to the New Mathematics, zero and infinity are two sides of the same coin.

Yes, of course, Nauticant.

As with R0wan's post, I'm also not sure about how exactly there is simultaneously high levels of acceptance and also huge hostility towards transpeople.

I certainly need at least a couple of months at the Re-education Centre.

I am also blocked from the Twitter account Terfing even though I have never interacted with them... nor do I post anything on twitter actually.

I presume this is because I follow a number of GC feminists and organisations on there.