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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A letter to a female transactivist

237 replies

Destinysdaughter · 26/05/2018 22:50

Just saw this on Twitter. Brilliant

"A man is not a woman. There’s no medical procedure that can change sex in humans or any other mammal. When you fight for the right of men to call themselves “women” and enter woman-only spaces on the basis of their say so, you are doing what Men’s Rights Activists have always done. You are violating women’s boundaries for personal gain. You are allowing men to colonise women’s spaces. You are creating a climate of fear where women and girls will start to withdraw from public life, because all semblance of safety – access to sex seggregated spaces when they are vulnerable – will be destroyed. Your activism is not feminism, it’s at best a misguided naiveté, and at worst opportunism to get ahead while throwing other women under the bus. And by the time you realise how foolish you’ve been, because you are “just” a woman in those men’s eyes, it’ll be too late. The way entitled men disrespect women, the way they mow women down, the way they put their own needs, feelings and wants before women’s lives and livelihoods, they’ll do the same to you when you’re no longer useful to them."

lascapigliata8.wordpress.com/2018/04/28/a-letter-to-a-female-trans-activist/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

OP posts:
Bowlofbabelfish · 29/05/2018 14:54

f pre pubescent boy knows he is going to live his life as female, and meets all the psychological evaluations etc.. Just what harm is that youth doing to anyone by transitioning?

Firstly he can’t know for sure. 80% of teens who identify as trans eventually stop doing so and reconcile with their sex. So only 20% come through puberty and still identify as trans. Any treatment given to all has to recognise that. Or you are irreversibly harming children who no longer meet any criteria for being trans.

The drugs used to block puberty are very, very unpleasant. They have life long and irreversible effects including sterility, metabolic disturbance, brain damage and osteoporosis. Cross sex hormones and surgery also have huge effects.

There is literally no other field of medicine where such drugs or treatment would be given to a child without a direct and immediate threat to their lives. Literally none.

What harm is that youth doing anyone else isn’t really the question, it’s what harm is being done TO that youth. Children cannot understand sufficiently to consent - that’s why we have laws to protect them, such as the age of consent for sexual activity etc.

To harm a child (and these drugs are harmful - lupron is particularly awful) is a gross breach of medical ethics.

titchy · 29/05/2018 14:55

How on earth can a pre-pubescent boy make that decision? We're talking about a child of primary school age. Not even at the age of criminal responsibility.

Jonny's in year 4. Jonny likes pink. Jonny must be a trans girl. Jonny wants his penis cut off.

You think that's ok?

MissSusanSays · 29/05/2018 14:58

Anushkashsmum Your post are so misogynistic. That’s why a few people are struggling to believe that you’re a mum of three girls.

Women are women because they are born women. I suffer secondary infertility. Does that make me any less a woman? No. Because I was born a woman. Even if my uterus was removed it would stop me from having been born a woman.

No feminist is saying that infertile women aren’t women. No feminist is saying that infertile women are not women.

What rad female ARE saying is that people born men are not women. There should be no issues with someone male taking on a traditionally female gender role. Expand the wavelength of what is it to be male, brilliant.

But this fairytale that genetically, make bodied men can be women, can understand the struggles of women and what it is to be a woman (from birth), is hurtful and damaging to women.

R0wantrees · 29/05/2018 15:05

There's a long interview with Stephanie Davies-Arai here about Transgender Trend & children / young people who are questioning their gender identity:

Thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3258165-stephanie-davies-arai-transgender-trend

also a recent Guardian article featuring Mermaids as well as Transgender Trend: www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

Yambabe · 29/05/2018 15:37

Anush we have several trans women and men who post regularly on here as well as loads of lesbians, and a considerable amount of bi people. All opinions are valid and welcome but if you don't want to get (verbally) ripped to bits you will need to be able to back up your arguments pretty robustly.

You still haven't answered yes or no - can humans change sex?

Anushkashsmum · 29/05/2018 16:40

What about the kids Who DO know, without a doubt, that they want to transition? Don't they deserve the right to be happy?
I answered earlier about whether humans can change sex...same reply.. In my very humble opinion.. One can change sex anatomically.. Can't change DNA and chromosomes etc... So I'll say what you want me to say.. No.. Its not possible to fully change the sex of a human being BUT.. I believe a mtf can live a fulfilling life as a woman..and be loved for the person they are. I suppose its all about acceptance. I was constantly told that my ex partner was a bloke.. but because I loved her.. I saw past that. Maybe a lot of people aren't as tolerant or worry too much what others say....Guess what... Trans people live and move amongst us and you will never know because they pass so well... they blend into everyday life, maybe one works with you... Could be your neighbour.... Or the caring nurse who looked after your dying gran...I bet you took chocolates in and a nice thank you card? They just want to be left alone to get on with their lives...and if I'm called a Handmaiden.. I'm really not going to lose any sleep over it...😘😘

LangCleg · 29/05/2018 16:44

you will never know because they pass so well

They really, really don't.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 29/05/2018 16:53

If transpeople always pass so well why was your partner called a block so often

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 29/05/2018 16:54

Bloke

Not block obviously

OldCrone · 29/05/2018 16:56

What about the kids Who DO know, without a doubt, that they want to transition? Don't they deserve the right to be happy?

Anushkashsmum
As Bowlofbabelfish pointed out to you, 80% of those children will grow up to be content with the sex they were born. That means that out of 5 children who identify as transgender as children, only one will still feel that way once they are an adult. And you don't know which one, and neither do they. Subjecting all 5 to irreversible and dangerous medication is not a kind thing to do.

What would be kinder is to make sure all those children have sympathetic counselling with the aim of becoming comfortable in the body that they were born with. The alternative of giving them irreversible medication which will leave them sterile and sexually non-functioning, is unlikely to make any of them happy, even if they still identify as transgender as adults.

MissSusanSays · 29/05/2018 17:54

I noticed Anushkashsmum conveniently ignored my post.

You’re side are the ones telling women what they should be and what they should say and how they should act. Your side are the hateful misogynists.

Anushkashsmum · 29/05/2018 18:11

Sorry Misssusansays, I'll read you post

Yambabe · 29/05/2018 18:27

Thanks Anush.

So we have a starting point, humans can't change sex.

But they can change their outward appearance to be closer to what THEY consider to be that of the opposite sex, of course they can. In an ideal world they can express their gender, personality, whatever you want to call it, their essence of self perhaps, however they want.

This is what women want. For trans people to be free to be trans, for being trans not to be a slur, or a reason for discrimination .

But at the same time there are some protections that women need because of their biological sex. Whether trans people are lovely (and many of my trans friends are although one is an irritating diva!) is irrelevant. Their loveliness shouldn't over-ride the need for women to be able to access single-sex services where they need them. It shouldn't mean that their fear of male violence against them can be solved by letting them in women's safe spaces because under self-id that would allow all males in and the spaces wouldn't be safe any more.

What the whole thing needs is compromise, to find and use the overlap and to ringfence the rest to ensure everyone's safety. That can only be reached by discussion. But at the moment we have #nodebate, silencing of women, and trans people saying that anyone who refuses to admit to a biological impossibility hates them and wants them not to exist. We have people trying to shut down the debate with actual violence against women, the punch-in-the-face type of violence.

It makes me very sad as it's all so un-necessary. I can't see how anyone sane can fail to see that we need to talk. But they don't, they just scream their mantras and close their ears.

I like trans women and trans men, but I don't like trans ideology.

Anushkashsmum · 29/05/2018 19:02

Someone kindly explained what TIM,MRA and the other abbr. mean....
I'm 100% female btw..sorry to disappoint you.

TerfsUp · 29/05/2018 19:15

Someone kindly explained what TIM,MRA and the other abbr. mean....

Biscuit
TerfsUp · 29/05/2018 19:16

I'm 100% female btw..sorry to disappoint you.

I'm 100% giraffe.

Anushkashsmum · 29/05/2018 19:22

2 ex husbands actually...

Ereshkigal · 29/05/2018 19:22

So does the giraffe.

TERFragetteCity · 29/05/2018 19:25

I'm 100% female btw..sorry to disappoint you.

What makes you say that? How would you know?

TerfsUp · 29/05/2018 19:27

Only one ex-husband, I'm afraid. It was a cross-species marriage and, sadly, doomed to fail.

TerfsUp · 29/05/2018 19:28

What makes you say that? How would you know?

In the wonderful world of self-ID, anyone can be anything that want to. Today is Giraffe Tuesday. Tomorrow will be Opera Singer Wednesday. Haven't yet decided what I will be on Thursday. Maybe Greek.

MissSusanSays · 29/05/2018 19:31

Good point TERFragetteCity

How do any of us know? And do we all have to pick? Let’s invent 19 sexes and make everyone pick exactl which one they are. That’s so progressive and liberal.

Or, is it just more patriarchal bullshit designed to put women back in their box(es). ‘Sorry, but you’renthe Wrong kind of woman for this job. We were looking for someone a little more femme and less butch. Try identifying with something more manly.’

God, how can some women not see that this is just a slippery slope back into being made to comply with gender norms.

Want to be considered a ‘real’ woman, even though you were born one, well act like one. Like pink, be vague, be weak and, above all, agree with those men.

AngryAttackKittens · 29/05/2018 19:38

Or the caring nurse who looked after your dying gran

There was another TRA who used this specific example here recently, anyone remember who it was? My gran had dementia at the end, but her eyes were still fine, so this would most likely have resulted in a lot of "transphobic" statements about the nurse being a bloke, since she wasn't really able to manage polite lies any more.

Anushkashsmum · 29/05/2018 19:39

Thank you... I read it with interest and agree with a lot she says.

Anushkashsmum · 29/05/2018 19:52

Misssusansays - I don't mean to come across a misogynistic.....and of course it doesn't make you any less of a woman. Sorry if I offended you.

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