Class analysis...

[BertrandRussell]

Why do people find it so difficult? Am I being too simplistic and missing something?
White people as a class have more power than black people as a class.. Men as a class are more violent than women as a class. Is there anything controversial there?

what do you think the men are doing?

Whatever they are doing or not doing, they will, automatically, have higher socio-economic and political status than their female counterparts.

And that is unearned privilege. AKA class.

I’m going to my neighbour’s birthday party tomorrow for example. 20 women from the estate are invited. They are all single mums. Out of the five others that I know, I am the only one that gets child support and CMS called me the other day to tell me they want to take him to court because he won’t give them his employer’s name so they can garnish his wages which has only happened because he refuses to pay voluntarily...

offred

Well, it’s pretty insulting to working class women to erase the fact that the actual burden of being poor is magnified by also being a woman.

I thought you were going on about nuance re intersections of class earlier, that’s one right there

I think this is a fair point. But I don’t see a huge benefit in playing privilege top trumps. I really meant a nuanced approach to what issues various groups face and what measures can be put in place to try and help.

Well actually one of the men is in jail for a double murder. His wife had to move off the estate because they evicted her after he was arrested. She slept in her car with her four kids for months because no-one would rent to the murderer’s wife...

What can be done to help?

Maybe start by acknowledging that the experiences of WC men and WC women are different? And that it’s not insulting to WC men to acknowledge that...

That all sounds shit offred

Maybe start by acknowledging that the experiences of WC men and WC women are different? And that it’s not insulting to WC men to acknowledge that

No problem admitted people, women and men face different problems.

I don’t mean to be frustrated BTW. I live in this community and I share many of the economic and care issues but I had middle class socialisation and every single day I am reminded of just how much of an advantage that gives me.

"Whatever they are doing or not doing, they will, automatically, have higher socio-economic and political status than their female counterparts. "

What?

You used an example of women doing all the housework for men as an example of male unearned privilege.

I asked you what the men are doing, the implication being that they are offering something in exchange (the obvious thing being working full time to provide financially)

You can't just counter with "the privilege fairy"

Things I have done in this community;

negotiated with the housing association after constant in and out of work lead to constant suspensions and reassessments of HB which led to arrears. They still took my neighbour to court and evicted her. Then bought her three kids Christmas presents because she had to pay moving costs.

Called the police and sat through the video interview as the responsible adult (they did it in my house) after a neighbour’s 13 year old disclosed sexual abuse by another neighbour. Then been at the end of the phone whenever I was needed.

Attended health and social care appointments for support.

Checked in regularly on suicidal neighbour and offer to give her grandkids tea.

Offered to take the baby regularly while night shift mum sleeps. (Both these were refused because of pride)

Lent money to people on a regular basis when their benefits were messed up cos of insecure work. I’ve got about 40% back but I make sure I don’t lend what I can’t afford, they always insist they will pay it back because they ‘don’t want a handout’ but I know they can’t afford to pay it back.

Given hours of advice (two hours this morning just re threatened eviction).

Proof read a million letters.

Virtually every single day there is something, you don’t even have to look for it. I’m disabled and exhausted as a single mum caring for a child with complex needs and trying to fight the system for us due to it being entirely broken, all I do is walk to school and back and I see my neighbours and we talk, every time there is a new problem. This party tomorrow will be the first time I have socialised since August last month and I feel too tired to go already. I like this community because we look after each other.

You sound remarkably unfrustrated offred have a great time at the party.

I’ve even written letters for people actually and spent hours finding out what they want to say and wording it to express that.

I’ve helped women leave abusive men.

I’ve taken in kids for a few hours because they had been told to get out of the house while their parents had a party and were just wandering the street....

It’s just endless...

August last year! 🤦🏻‍♀️

Thanks! I don’t mean to be relentlessly miserable about it, it’s just I see how utterly invisible most of this horrendous stuff that is going on is to most people and that really is a massive problem. Two of my male neighbour died this year (there aren’t many anyway) one just dropped dead in his fifties and his partner wasn’t even entitled to the house or bereavement benefits because they weren’t married, the other was in his 70s but had had a long and slow slide into increasing disability...

I do very much care about it. But I also can’t escape the reality which is the main male representation here is one of conspicuous absence by choice... and then the good men die and the families are fucked.

Well, she was entitled to the house but the HA tried to claim she wasn’t... because that’s the kind of shit the system pulls when people are poor...

It’s quite normal for people to not be married and for everything to be in the man’s name only because they are the ones with the money to pay.

Virtually every single day there is something, you don’t even have to look for it.

Exactly. Thank you for what you do every day, Offred.

I asked you what the men are doing, the implication being that they are offering something in exchange (the obvious thing being working full time to provide financially)

I answered your question. I said that whatever the male counterparts are doing they will automatically be awarded higher politico-socio-economic status.

And I think you just agreed with me.

Working full time gives a person status and financial independence that being a housewife or a part time worker who makes her work fit around childcare or housework does not.

One person working full time and one person fitting in with that does not make for an equal exchange.

And that's when things are at their rosiest. It is of course even more unequal when the man fucks off leaving the woman to bring up the kids. Or when he hits her or financially abuses her or pimps her, etc etc.

"I said that whatever the male counterparts are doing they will automatically be awarded higher politico-socio-economic status. "

Yes, and I said this is the "privilege fairy", you can't see it, taste it, touch it, smell it or hear it, but you're convinced it exists and will keep on pointing to it at any given opportunity

"And I think you just agreed with me

Working full time gives a person status and financial independence that being a housewife or a part time worker who makes her work fit around childcare or housework does not.

One person working full time and one person fitting in with that does not make for an equal exchange."

Except I didn't.

My point was that most relationships of that nature are reciprocal.

Anecdotal, but as soon as I was born my mother decided she wouldn't go back to work again even part time. Admittedly asthma probably played a part but if she really wanted to then she could have found something to do

The notion that your average father/husband on an average annual wage is somehow of higher status than his wife who is raising the kids and keeping the house in order is laughable.

Although if we really wanted to throw the cat amongst the pigeons then I could bring up Petersons claim that women typically marry upwards in terms of social standing, whilst men marry in all directions

It doesn’t really though does it? Because what it says is men have more secure and better economic status than women and so it doesn’t really matter if they marry a women who is less able to provide financially than they are...

"Because what it says is men have more secure and better economic status than women and so it doesn’t really matter if they marry a women who is less able to provide financially than they are."

I guess that's one way to look at, the other would be that women want to marry someone that can provide for them. That doesn't say anything about their own ability/inability to provide for themselves (which incidentally many women, both single and not single manage quite well)

Why would women be looking for a man to provide for them?

it’s just I see how utterly invisible most of this horrendous stuff that is going on is to most people and that really is a massive problem

I can't YY this hard enough.

Why would women be looking for a man to provide for them?

And why does the benefit system ensure that some women are forced to choose between a man abusing them or the state abusing them?