Meet the man standing to be a Labour party women’s officer

[busyboysmum]

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/meet-the-man-standing-to-be-a-labour-party-womens-officer/

This is great - good on David Lewis. Shows the Labour Party's policy up for the nonsense it is.

If any man can say he's a woman and self identify as such.... I can't believe I am even typing these words.

It's just not possible to change your biological sex. Surely common sense is going to win through this madness?

[Ereshkigal]

They would say that they are female. That's the legal fiction. Like if you asked them if an adoptive mother had given birth to her child, they would recognise that she hadn't, but they would call her the child's mother.

That doesn't mean that they have changed sex. I wonder if the case depended on whether they were actually female biologically, what they would say.

[SupermatchGame]

This data set will never be forthcoming because it does not exist.

Well the GRA that allows a trans woman to be recognised as legally female was passed in parliament in 2004 by 155 votes to 57. That is really all the data we need.

[SupermatchGame]

Actually female biologically.. I don't know how they would answer that one. Does it matter?

[Ereshkigal]

Of course it would matter are you deliberately being obtuse?

[bunbunny]

Hope this can become a #womanwednesday to be a sister (brother?! hmmm. might stick with sibling...) movement to #manfriday

[crispbuttyfan]

Obvious gaslighting here.

It's just embarrassing, isn't it? Make an assertion. Get it refuted. Complain about refutation. Get challenged to evidence assertion. Spend pages upon pages making ignorant comments revealing lack of even the most basic understanding of topic at hand (polling). Force endless explanations of the understanding that is lacking. Hope nobody remembers to insist on the evidence for assertion made.

I'm still waiting for a data set from commissioned research by a reputable professional polling company that a majority of women are in favour of penis in their private spaces and/or of amending the GRA to self-ID. This data set will never be forthcoming because it does not exist.

lol at how everything that doesn't fit into an anti-trans narrative is spun as gaslighting....

Hey langy did you find the yougov poll yet?

Here's something for you....

"To men we asked the same question but concerning a transgender
man, “that is a woman who has gone through all or part of a process
to become a man”.
For both sexes a majority say they are comfortable with a
transgender person using a public toilet according to their gender
identity (Table 5). Women tend to be more comfortable with this
than men, with 72% of women saying they are “very” or “quite
comfortable” with a transgender woman using a female toilet,
compared with 64% of men saying they are comfortable with a
transgender man using male toilets. Around 1 in 6 (14% of women,
and 15% of men) say they are not comfortable with this. "

www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39147/bsa34_moral_issues_final.pdf

[crispbuttyfan]

"Women are more likely than men to condemn prejudice against
transgender people (58% of women say it is “always wrong”
compared with 46% of men). "

[Ereshkigal]

To men we asked the same question but concerning a transgender man, “that is a woman who has gone through^ all or part of a process^ to become a man”.

That is the legal wording, which we are saying is obfuscatory. People don't understand that means most TIMs have a penis.

[crispbuttyfan]

not at all, you are just implying trans supportive women are uninformed.
When they are always way more informed than anti-trans, and more likely to know someone who is trans.

Your basically saying women who support trans issues are too thick to understand the issue. Such feminism.

[TyneTeas]

But it is not clear how many of the people saying they are comfortable is on the assumption that a meaningful and considered transition has been undertaken

[Ereshkigal]

Your basically saying women who support trans issues are too thick to understand the issue. Such feminism.

No, I'm saying they get gaslighted by you and your TRA friends. They don't all "support trans issues" they just answer a dishonest, manipulative question with yes or no. Most people give trans issues about five seconds' thought. But they want to be nice.

[LangCleg]

Nope. Not having that framing. If blunt framing about physical status isn't allowed neither is obfuscating framing about physical status. We've already been through this.

The question is framed so that respondents assume physical transition - ie no penis - is underway. I know that's taken you an awful lot of searching to get this far, but you still haven't come up with polling that has clarity between transsexuals and cross dressers or support for GRA reformation to self-ID. And you won't, because none has been published.

[Ereshkigal]

The question is framed so that respondents assume physical transition - ie no penis - is underway

Exactly so.

[LangCleg]

And the reason you won't find the data set I've requested is when the question is frank about the realities, the responses are as per Panelbase. A majority of women don't want to see stranger penis in their private spaces and a majority of women don't want stranger penis to be able to self-ID into their spaces.

[LangCleg]

And, by the way, I think it's a good thing that public attitude surveys (rather than single issue professional polling - I know you don't understand the difference, Crisp) are clearly showing that the public are less alarmed about and hostile towards GNC people - whether that be a butch lesbian, an effeminate gay man, or a transgender male or female. This is healthy.

[Sparkyduchess]

I think I’ve just seen that in one breath, Labour have confirmed their ‘woman is anyone who says they are’ stance, but they’ve also suspended David Lewis?

[PencilsInSpace]

crispbuttyfan - The question is about removing single sex changing rooms and toilets....

things that are not even up for discussion....

We'll decide what questions we have and what's up for discussion when it comes to our rights thanks.

I have questions and want to discuss the GRA AND the EA AND the way they interact AND the cultural changes that are happening AND what's happening with GNC children AND what's happening with the safeguarding of girls AND the effects on lesbians AND the stifling of debate AND the harm done to women who dare speak up AND I bet there are a few areas I've forgotten that other women have questions about and want to discuss too.

A couple of months ago it was all - 'Ooh you keep saying you just want to talk about the GRA but I've seen people discussing the EA '

Then it was all 'hahaha how stupid are you thinking the GRA will make any difference! It's the EA that gives us our rights. That's what you should be discussing'

We can see straight through this divide and conquer shit. We can see very clearly that the transactivist agenda is a total clusterfuck made of many interlocking and interacting parts. We have questions about all of it. It's all up for discussion.

[crispbuttyfan]

Langleg

yep a nonsensical question you claimed to have been accepted by yougov, when only panelbase would accept it, because its clearly nonsense, is the gold standard....

but nothing else from an actual reputable study is acceptable, got it!

[Ereshkigal]

Yep. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

[Ereshkigal]

We can see straight through this divide and conquer shit. We can see very clearly that the transactivist agenda is a total clusterfuck made of many interlocking and interacting parts. We have questions about all of it. It's all up for discussion.

Yes yes yes.

[LangCleg]

you claimed to have been accepted by yougov, when only panelbase would accept it, because its clearly nonsense, is the gold standard

Keep trying, dear.

Found that data set yet?

[crispbuttyfan]

Pencils
thanks for the attempted exchange but I wouldnt even know where to start with all that hyperbole, I'll have to pass.

But for what it's worth I didn't say something could not be discussed, I said the non-sequitur question using claims and framing that are NOT being discussed with reference to the GRA are bogus...

[crispbuttyfan]

Langleg

any sign of you yougov dataset yet?

As much as I love these petty squabbles you like to draw people into, I'm really not interested, keep keeping on.

[Ereshkigal]

But for what it's worth I didn't say something could not be discussed, I said the non-sequitur question using claims and framing that are NOT being discussed with reference to the GRA are bogus...

As she said, we're going to discuss what we like, in whichever way we like. We're not waiting for you to tell us what we can discuss. I'm sure you didn't mean to sound like you had any say?

[myrtleWilson]

crispbuttyfan - do you have evidence it was only panelbase that accepted it? Because your statement suggests that others rejected it - so I'd be keen to see your evidence for this? thanks in advance