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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans women

411 replies

Jamiem80 · 19/05/2018 01:07

Probably going to get shot down massively here but a simple question clearly there is a lot of hate for men wanting to be women, but nothing about women becoming men. Do you also frown upon this or is it ok and for what reason?

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Truthwillwin · 20/05/2018 00:17

I see trans men as woman and I worry for them the same way I worry about females. Men will not see these trans men as men. I'm not being Transphobic here, it is really just seeing my own sex attempting to cross a boundary that men generally will not take seriously. That's why they are not in the debate. Trans men are not safe either as a result. I would fear for them. They will not be taken seriously. Men will laugh at them. In my opinion. They will be shouted down the same way women are. If they want to fight sexism, they would be better doi g it as their own sex. Similarly, if men want to fight negative masculinity, I believe they should fight it within their own sex. But, their voices, like females are lost. I wish all those who are fighting the masculine/feminine construction could just say f* you all, this is me. There is enough role models out there to enable this. I think we have become complacent though and thought this was a done deal. Clearly, more work needs to be done.

Datun · 20/05/2018 00:20

@datun you're just begging to be told to fuck off aren't you?

Oh gosh. Yet more reasons for your demands of access to vulnerable women and girls to be granted.

Keep it coming. You're a one-man peaking machine.

thebewilderness · 20/05/2018 00:22

Go fight it out with Stonewall. They are the ones who will call you transphobic because of your narrow minded definition of transgender.

Nogodsnomasters · 20/05/2018 00:26

@upstart lol!!! Please show me anywhere that I have given my opinion on shared spaces? I have not once and its not even what I'm discussing. I'm discussing feminist women accepting transwomen as real women, not biologically (obviously ffs everyone knows they were biologically born something else) I'm talking about the rest of it. If you wish to present as a sex there is no reason why you should not.

Nogodsnomasters · 20/05/2018 00:29

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Datun · 20/05/2018 00:29

If you wish to present as a sex there is no reason why you should not.

Of course there isn't. That's the basis of gender critical feminism.

Strewth. Why do people get these notions?

UpstartCrow · 20/05/2018 00:32

@Nogodsnomasters You really don't understand what you are supporting, do you.

You actually think women should pretend a penis is a female organ and not be concerned about the ramifications? Go look at the Girl Guides thread. Girls are being told to leave.

Terfulike · 20/05/2018 00:33

The rest of it oneman is called feminity. Feminity is not womanhood.

Datun · 20/05/2018 00:33

@daktun oh yes because all women and girls are vulnerable and must be protected from bad men who pretend to be women.... You're an actual psycho.

98% of sexually violent crime is committed by men. 90% of violent crime committed by men.

20% of women will suffer sexual assault at some point in their lives. The #metoo campaign ran to 11,000,000 posts in under 24 hours.

I think you'll find that the only 'psychos' are men, 98% of the time.

There are 14,000 men in prison for sex offences, and 120 women.

Identifying as a woman does not change that pattern.

I can't work out if you're genuinely ignorant or just goading.

SupermatchGame · 20/05/2018 00:34

Men will not see these trans men as men. I'm not being Transphobic here, it is really just seeing my own sex attempting to cross a boundary that men generally will not take seriously. They will not be taken seriously. Men will laugh at them. In my opinion.

Hey Truthwillwin, can I ask you an honest question? Could you please take a look at these four men's stories? Do you really think most men, or people, will not take these 4 men seriously as men and will laugh at them?

LightofaSilveryMoon · 20/05/2018 00:34

Nogodsnomasters:
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but we do not hate anyone, not at all; we are just women who are concerned about the safety, privacy and dignity of women and girls.

Our grandmothers fought for certain single-sex spaces for a reason. Women and girls' safety, privacy and dignity. Because of female biology, and what happens, when biological males force themselves upon us, regardless of how anyone "identifies".

Terfulike · 20/05/2018 00:36

I think she's genuinely ignorant and goading for calling datun a psycho

Pseudonymium · 20/05/2018 00:40

There are no men who want to become women.
And there are no women who want to become men.

If a child is born with an intersex condition resulting in ambiguous genitalia, the best practice is to allow that child to grow up without surgically altering their genitals until they are old enough to say If they are a girl or a boy, or even neither. I hope you’d agree this is right and humane.

Some babies are born with a different sexual ambiguity that can’t be seen at birth. Their brains may be one sex and their genitals are the opposite. They too can tell you which sex they are, but their bodies contradict them. Can you imagine how distressing it is for a girl to grow a beard and have her voice break, or a boy to start having periods and breast development. This is the reality for thousands of people, many are too ashamed and depressed to even ask for help. They spend years living in misery and many attempt suicide.

A man would never want to be a woman, but a trans-woman isn’t a man. She just has the misfortune to be born with a male body. She will tell you that if only you’ll listen. Similarly, no woman would choose to be a man, but a trans-man isn’t a woman. He just has the misfortune to have been born with a female body. He will tell you that if only you’d listen.

Please start to see that trans is not a choice. Hiding it or coming out is, and the recent increase in numbers is because more people are feeling confident to come out of hiding and ask for help. This is because society is generally wiser now about human diversity, and realises the misery that intolerance can cause.

Nogodsnomasters · 20/05/2018 00:41

@upstart 3rd time you've tried to change the topic now when I confront you on your assumptive responses, I feel like you're just replying to your own thoughts and not my actual fucking messages.

UpstartCrow · 20/05/2018 00:43

No, you think its a change of subject because you arent well informed and dont know what you are talking about - or you are not here in good faith. Thats not for me to judge.

Nogodsnomasters · 20/05/2018 00:43

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thebewilderness · 20/05/2018 00:44

Some babies are born with a different sexual ambiguity that can’t be seen at birth. Their brains may be one sex and their genitals are the opposite.

Born in the wrong body is a myth.
Read Delusions of Gender and you will better understand how this myth was created.

Nogodsnomasters · 20/05/2018 00:48

@pseudo better than anything I could have worded as I'm not that way inclined, just because someone doesn't have a flair for words doesn't mean they don't have opinions to share though.

Pseudonymium · 20/05/2018 00:48

Not the wrong body. A trans person has their own body. For them their intersex condition is that their sense of self, the who they are, does not correspond with their physical reality.

thebewilderness · 20/05/2018 00:50

Pseudonymium
Are you arguing that transgender is a personality disorder that children are born with, like NPD?

UpstartCrow · 20/05/2018 00:50

So why dont trans activists accept that and campaign for their own spaces and services?

Nogodsnomasters · 20/05/2018 00:51

@upstart you started demanding to know why I believed it was okay for transwomen to share spaces etc in one post when I had spoke of no such thing when I asked you why you were saying that you didnt respond and changed tactic again to girl guides. You'll throw anything from your "reserve of facts" at me even if it means subtly changing the topic because you can't explain why you are so cruel as to not accept transwomen as women. End of. That is most certainly the definition of changing the subject, you are so obvious with it I'm afraid.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 20/05/2018 00:52

Pseudonymium:
*Their brains may be one sex and their genitals are the opposite"

I'm sorry, but your comments constitute a crock of glittery-unicorn total shit! So anti-science, it is unbelievable!

Also, intersex support groups have asked, repeatedly, to leave intersex people out of this argument. In my experience, feminists respect this request, by Men's/Trans Rights people do not.

Pseudonymium · 20/05/2018 00:52

What is NPD?

Terfulike · 20/05/2018 00:53

Its noticeable though isn't it how trans people are like characatures of masculinity or feminity. It's like caitlin Jenner. If she was a real woman she'd more than likely be a member of the blue rinse brigade