Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Trans women

411 replies

Jamiem80 · 19/05/2018 01:07

Probably going to get shot down massively here but a simple question clearly there is a lot of hate for men wanting to be women, but nothing about women becoming men. Do you also frown upon this or is it ok and for what reason?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
thebewilderness · 19/05/2018 23:41

How many more times can one be so wrong on a single thread?

I think they are going for a multi thread record.

thebewilderness · 19/05/2018 23:42

People who refuse to take no for an answer are not safe to b around.

Datun · 19/05/2018 23:43

What was that wonderful sentence? Framing women's compliance as essential for men's mental health is abuse.

AssassinatedBeauty · 19/05/2018 23:45

If you are requesting access to a group that you aren't in, whether on the grounds of mental health or otherwise, it is a request. The answer can be no.

I notice that you seem only to be referring to the kind of person who has a diagnosed mental health issue and will have full surgery to resemble the opposite sex as much as possible. These days that is a very small percentage of those that identify as transgender, most of whom don't have extensive surgery or radically change their presentation.

Nogodsnomasters · 19/05/2018 23:46

@maryz was there a need to use six "actual/actually'" in one paragraph. That was painful to read.

Nogodsnomasters · 19/05/2018 23:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ToeToToe · 19/05/2018 23:51

Maryz, how nice to see you on here again.

Yes - it's absolutely bonkers.

NoGods - womanhood isn's a fucking club you can join, as long as we let you in - you either are born a woman, or you aren't. Stop this fucking nonsense.

UpstartCrow · 19/05/2018 23:51

Most Ironic Username Award goes to...

Terfulike · 19/05/2018 23:55

Nogods
There are plenty of sensible transexuals who recognise that their extensive surgery still doesn't make them a woman.

Maryz · 19/05/2018 23:57

I'm beginning to think there is an absolute necessity to use the words actual/ity and real/ity multiple times in every post.

Some people seem to really believe in made-up shite and need reminding.

Picassospaintbrush · 19/05/2018 23:58

Honestly, it's always like this after a wedding, drunken fights over nowt.

Terfulike · 19/05/2018 23:59

It's almost as if you believe that a crew of fully transitioned postoperative transwomen and transmen could be dumped on a desert island have penetrative "vaginal" sex and as we say in evolutionary circles survive and reproduce.

Nogodsnomasters · 19/05/2018 23:59

@upstart please explain the irony in relation to this topic whatsoever?

ToeToToe · 20/05/2018 00:00

It's not a case of just "wanting" to be in a group @Assassinated this is a proven mental health issue.

Hang on, I thought it wasn't a mental health issue anymore - and they're all gunning for self ID for that reason. Theresa May's speech in Pink News - remember?

We're flayed alive when we try to treat it as a mental health issue.

chavtasticfirebanger · 20/05/2018 00:01

It just doesn't seem as common. Men wanting to be women has become very very common, almost so common it is more than what could be expected to 'naturally occur'. This has been brought into the press because of the issues around women's safety when biological males enter their spaces, and also the self ID concerns.
I wonder if this is just about gender dysphoria or whether there are underlying beliefs as well, similarly to how radfems become political lesbians. Hegemonic masculinity determines that only the most macho men succeed, in this hierarchy those who are not sporty, muscular, effortlessly cool, successful and attractive fail as men and are 'lesser'. By that token, I wonder if the transwomen movement attracts men who are not naturally at the top of that hegemonic hierarchy, and who as a result are attracted to another form of masculinity, which is embodied instead in femininity-as transwomen. Finding a place, so to speak. That rather than wanting to be simply women biologically, there is a new breed of women, more superior, more powerful, stronger and more 'today', meaning that the model of success has changed. That doesn't require sex change, just a feeling of belonging and beliefs.
The defence from trans activists could be harsh because it is a place they do not want to lose.
I don't know if that makes sense.

Nogodsnomasters · 20/05/2018 00:04

@Assassinated don't all transgender people have a diagnosed mental health issue like you said in last post, I believe gender dysphoria is a mental health issue in and of itself. And yes that is who I am referring to. Straight up if someone is mentally struggling with their biological gender, wish to be reassigned physically to the opposite sex AND/OR gender why are you all so determined to tell them that can't, it's not allowed, you won't ever be a real one (man or woman). It's horrible.

Terfulike · 20/05/2018 00:06

I can see you haven't yet realised that most transwomen haven't actually got genital dysphoria

Maryz · 20/05/2018 00:07

What, now transgender people all have gender dysphoria? And they are all suffering from some sort of mental health issue?

Are we back in the year 2000?

Jaysus, I can't keep up. Isn't that view transphobic?

ToeToToe · 20/05/2018 00:07

Because it's not true, Nogods,

And the 'not true' bit about it, regardless of how 'not true' it really is - is threatening women's rights. It;s also threatening all sorts of other things - for example, the language we're allowed to use. Eg. Motherhood, breastfeeding. The pronoun police are on mumsnet - a generally free thinking chat site - already.

We're not having it. We don't "believe" your mantras.

Nogodsnomasters · 20/05/2018 00:08

@terful... Yeah it's almost like I believe that, except I don't, and haven't indicated anything of the sort. It's almost like you made up a little story and decided to force it on someone else because you needed something to say....

Terfulike · 20/05/2018 00:08

And the people who cause most trouble are those who love their bodies just as they are. That's why transexuals are turning against them as well.

UpstartCrow · 20/05/2018 00:11

@Nogodsnomasters apart from the fact that you are ill informed, why are you so determined to force women to share intimate spaces with men?

Why do women have women only spaces and services?

Wikipedia:Chesterton's fence
''Chesterton's fence is the principle that reforms should not be made until the reasoning behind the existing state of affairs is understood.''

Just because there doesn't seem to be a reason for this fence to be here doesn't mean there isn't a reason.
Chesterton's fence is the principle that reforms should not be made until the reasoning behind the existing state of affairs is understood.

Terfulike · 20/05/2018 00:11

By which I mean men who love their penis and say theyre women and call it a clitstick

Terfulike · 20/05/2018 00:14

You need to peaktrans

ToeToToe · 20/05/2018 00:14

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

People do not believe that you can change sex. They may be polite, they may call you the pronouns that are demanded - but you can't legislate for people's beliefs. Transwomen are transwomen. They are not women, they were born men. This is factual, and can never be changed.

Swipe left for the next trending thread