A bare breast on a t-shirt at a conference

[poopsqueak]

I was at a conference yesterday with many speakers.

The audience was of a digital nature.

One speaker came on stage with a t-shirt with a woman with a bare breast on (faded and 'artsy') and I didn't think much of it. He was 35, male and talking about an organisation he had founded. The talk was very interesting.

When the next speaker started the conference organiser came on stage and apologised for the t-shirt of the previous speaker and said he hadn't seen it prior to the speaker going on stage and mentioned a 'Twitter incident'

When the next speaker started half the audience were on their phones seeing what the 'incident' was. I found this very rude to the speaker who was speaking while lots of people were looking at their phones.

Turns out a person had left in the prior speaker posting on Twitter saying that they were 'shaking with anger' at the t-shirt and 'crying in the toilet'. They used the official conference hash so people could see. People began discussing and the person who was upset sent a lot of tweets about it.

I'm really in two minds about this. I don't think the t-shirt was great, but the guy said he was jet lagged and had come straight from the plane so maybe hadn't changed. I feel torn between the sides of a speaker wearing a sexualised t shirt on stage and what I see as a another person who I think has had gross overreaction that has cause upset for the conference runners.

I feel like the guy who ran the conference apologised as soon as he could and did what needed.

To further confuse me, the person who was upset then accosted the guy with the shirt outside and they had words. The person then tweeted that they had felt victimised by the shirt wearers language.

Really I just want some others perspectives on this incident as I am I two minds. I am all for (and talk actions to ensure) the progression of women in tech, but feel the slightly hysterical reaction to a t-shirt mire the message? What do you think?

When men are confronted and told enough times that sexual harassment of women is no longer acceptable in tech then the barriers will lift and doors open.
So long as women are criticized for objecting the sexual harassment in the workplace will continue and failure to object will continue to be viewed as acquiescence.

@Picassospaintbrush I know I would be shaking if anything happened to me,

I was once shaking sending an email to a line manager in which I was stating that I had found a Page Three Girl on the wall of a PhD office and had torn it down, and was prepared to consider the matter closed as long as no similar images appeared to replace it but wanted it on record in case similar images did appear. Hell, I was shaking tearing the thing down in the first place. My (male) manager was really supportive, but that's not my point. My point is that speaking out, to anyone, at any level, to any extent, about sexual harassment is utterly terrifying

My point is that speaking out, to anyone, at any level, to any extent, about sexual harassment is utterly terrifying

Stumps for fingers? Wtf? I don't understand.

And no I don't want to go to a lads forum, as I am not a lad. I am a woman. I've said that before it seems.

Sorry posted too soon.
I am shocked that after all these years of workplace harassment training people persist in refusing to recognize sexual harassment when they see it right in front of their face on a stage at a conference.

What he wore, and how the conference organisers failed to address it, is the issue.

What she said, what she did, how she said it is not the issue.

Stop confusing 'cause' with 'response'.
Especially if you are on a tech board for women.
Stop bloody making allowances for male insults towards women.

Bewilderness I think you've summed it up really. I totally agree. I might not agree to the same extent as some others but I do agree.

I only came on here to have a discussion about a subject I was feeling torn over. I didn't expect to be accused of being a man, Or the man in question.

I work in HR, I deal with this stuff all the time, and the men I have to confront over it, and their reactions to me, and about her.

I go to work knowing I will be shaking. The toilet is where I go to sit. I no longer cry. I will likely die from all the cigarettes and alcohol however.

@assassinatedBeauty If you sit on a women in tech board how can you not realise the issues with this sort of stuff, and dismiss it as "stupid"?

Women in tech boards, like other kinds of diversity-box-ticking exercises, aren't about increasing women's participation in tech, but about making board members and participating companies look good. The same goes for Athena Swan etc in academia. At best, they promote "Lean In" liberal man-friendly "feminism" that focuses on changing women rather than challenging the male entitlement culture that makes women quit (or not enter in the first place).

Yup I agree, totally terrifying.

And I promise you women would much rather not have to. It’s tiring and scary, and means people think you can’t enjoy things.

I once had a really upsetting experience where I was having a lovely evening in a with a group of people at a music festival. It was such a lovely night and then the entertainment in the place we were in changed from djs to a stripshow where they had women on leashes and were parading them around the crowd and acting out bdsm on the stage.
It was such a change of pace and caught me so unaware and the atmosphere changed so quickly that it really upset me.
My boyfriend couldn’t understand why I was upset and shouted at me that I was overreacting wanting to leave and I needed to lighten up as no one else was upset. I just wanted to leave but people were asking why I was leaving and my boyfriend said it was because of the strippers and everyone started having a go at me for being a prude and someone said I was just jealous and it was honestly really upsetting. I had had a drink and couldn’t really articulate myself properly and I was shaking and upset. Seeing my friends cheering women being paraded round on leashes and being whipped was awful.
Just thinking about it makes me feel shaky.

Metrorider to be frank, you haven't a clue what you're talking about. The tech group I sit in is women only. So to suggest my presence is an a token or a box ticking exercise is silly and wrong.

This is another perspective from a male attendee:
medium.com/@jpjhill/the-silence-of-crowds-8f71782cc0c2
Worth reading, I think - it focuses on what he thinks the audience/conference/his response should have been.

That's not what metrorider meant, OP.

poopsqeak

There isn't a limbo bar of sexual harassment incidents under which men can shimmy, it is completely off limits in any form in the corporate world now. The only defence tactic men now have is to shame the women into submission with references to "offended". This is the millennial replacement for PC gone mad, which is now firmly relegated to boomer speak.

It's the same old male dominance with a new tag.

Feminists are always going to call out women that join in the male dominance display, it's just the way feminism is. We would rather women didn't undermine women, there really are already enough holes underneath us.

Anyway, I had an an amazing evening sail tonight in the Solent with a women only sailing group. I met a world class trampolining coach!

@thebewilderness When men are confronted and told enough times that sexual harassment of women is no longer acceptable in tech then the barriers will lift and doors open.

YY. I wouldn't choose the field again, knowing what I know now. I enjoy the work, I'm good at it, but the daily abrasion from some of the men is awful and I end up paranoid that all the men secretly hate me and want me out and are really good at hiding it.

So long as women are criticized for objecting the sexual harassment in the workplace will continue and failure to object will continue to be viewed as acquiescence.

That was why it was important to me to email my manager about the Page Three Girl, I had to not just silently deal with it.

This cartoon sums up the situation harassed women are in perfectly.

@Picassospaintbrush thank you for supporting the women who speak out.

I really liked that article thanks for sharing. I liked the balance that it brought and it really tapped into the conflict that I have been feeling.

I really am glad for all the feedback and I am also glad you had a good night sailing Picasso.

@metrorider

That's interesting about the Athena Swan stuff. I've just started some consulting work at a Uni and I need to establish if Athena Swan is any use to equal pay as part of that. Your reading is poor?

Interested to hear more?

@poopsqueak Metrorider to be frank, you haven't a clue what you're talking about. The tech group I sit in is women only. So to suggest my presence is an a token or a box ticking exercise is silly and wrong

I'll repunctuate my sentence to make my meaning clear: "Women in tech" boards, like other kinds of diversity-box-ticking exercises, aren't about increasing women's participation in tech, but about making board members and participating companies look good.

The existence of these boards, so that they can write CoCs that aren't enforced and tell women how to change to suit a toxic culture, is a tick-box exercise. As I said, Athena Swan. I've studied and worked at Athena Swan award-holding universities and sexism is still rife. I've worked in companies that have signed up to diversity charters and sexism is still rife. I don't need a "women's network" to tell me how to navigate a patriarchy without upsetting the menz, I need oppressive acts like sexual objectification and harassment to be dealt with swiftly and robustly.

I buy my OH t-shirts like this all the time. Complainer WAS being hysterical. A floral shirt will be giving people hayfever next.

He was “jet lagged and came straight from the plane”. Not really an appropriate t shirt for a plane either.

Op is almost being deliberately naive I think the t-shirt was stupid but don't feel the massive offence some others have.
How is that even relevant? I was assaulted by a colleague, in my team and of a senior grade. My primary goal in reporting him to hr was for the benefit of other junior women who might work with him - myself I took him aside the day after and told him it was completely unacceptable. I could do that, but I accept that many women would find that difficult, and i do see it as my responsibility to contribute to making work places safe for all women. Not just me who can confront people about behaviour and in your case not just you who thinks industry leaders wearing tshirts with tits is not a big problem.

While I liked John’s article I am not sure why you felt it was more ‘balanced’ that the woman’s. Hers was first person his was a report of a situation but they essentially said the same thing.

Testicles are well known for their ability to bring balance to the writing of the person who has them.

Angry