A bare breast on a t-shirt at a conference

[poopsqueak]

I was at a conference yesterday with many speakers.

The audience was of a digital nature.

One speaker came on stage with a t-shirt with a woman with a bare breast on (faded and 'artsy') and I didn't think much of it. He was 35, male and talking about an organisation he had founded. The talk was very interesting.

When the next speaker started the conference organiser came on stage and apologised for the t-shirt of the previous speaker and said he hadn't seen it prior to the speaker going on stage and mentioned a 'Twitter incident'

When the next speaker started half the audience were on their phones seeing what the 'incident' was. I found this very rude to the speaker who was speaking while lots of people were looking at their phones.

Turns out a person had left in the prior speaker posting on Twitter saying that they were 'shaking with anger' at the t-shirt and 'crying in the toilet'. They used the official conference hash so people could see. People began discussing and the person who was upset sent a lot of tweets about it.

I'm really in two minds about this. I don't think the t-shirt was great, but the guy said he was jet lagged and had come straight from the plane so maybe hadn't changed. I feel torn between the sides of a speaker wearing a sexualised t shirt on stage and what I see as a another person who I think has had gross overreaction that has cause upset for the conference runners.

I feel like the guy who ran the conference apologised as soon as he could and did what needed.

To further confuse me, the person who was upset then accosted the guy with the shirt outside and they had words. The person then tweeted that they had felt victimised by the shirt wearers language.

Really I just want some others perspectives on this incident as I am I two minds. I am all for (and talk actions to ensure) the progression of women in tech, but feel the slightly hysterical reaction to a t-shirt mire the message? What do you think?

Well, possibly the 'overreaction' was the person's real reaction and couldn't be helped

I think that explanation is undermined by the need to tweet about it.

The t-shirt is awful and inappropriate but so is the reaction.

If you turned up to an interview and the interviewer was a man wearing that t shirt, would it make you think about the culture of that workplace?

I know it wasn't appropriate, but hand on heart I wasn't that bothered.

Which is fair enough but doesn't mean others are wrong if they are bothered by it.

What's the bigger issue, the tshirt or the reaction?

His message was really positive. He spoke about the work he had done in gangland teen community and i thought it was great.

For me, his message would have been completely undone by the fact he was wearing a t-shirt with a woman's breast on it.

This sort of shit needs calling out. Its just not acceptable in any way.

It's frequently the men touting themselves as allies who are the biggest culprits in sexist, misogynistic behaviour. Worth bearing in mind.

the right way to open doors and lift barriers.

Why would it be the woman who should be worried about that and not the man who wore the potentially offensive tshirt?

Well I think potentially if you are trying to progress women in tech perhaps stating you are crying and shaking in the toilet is pandering to unhelpful stereotypes of the 'hysterical woman'?

PerhAps a quiet word with the organisers about enforcing a strict CoC that includes dress code might have been more appropriate.

Don't get me wrong, I think his t shirt was silly and asking for trouble, but I am confused! That's what I'm asking here.

To further confuse me, the person who was upset then accosted the guy with the shirt outside and they had words. The person then tweeted that they had felt victimised by the shirt wearers language.

I also think this OP, from your very first post downplays what the woman says happened. She claims she went over calmly to explain that she found the tshirt inappropriate and she was aggressively told to fuck off by the man and his entourage.

Not quite the picture you painted of her 'accosting' him and then claiming she was 'feeling victimised' by the response.

@poopsqueak Ps I absolutely know sexism in tech is an issue. I have worked in the industry for many years. I just wonder if this is the right way to open doors and lift barriers.

That's the 3rd rule of misogyny right there in that last sentence. When women have opinions, they are deemed exclusionary and unfair.

This is the thing that one woman is representative of all women in a way that men are not. Just because this one woman was crying and upset doesn't mean that all women are like that. It's unreasonable to suggest that.

I think my view is pretty clear already but to just to underline, fundamentally the issue is the tshirt but for some reason you are focusing more on the appropriateness, or not, of her reaction and not his behaviour. Which is not exactly unusual when it comes to adjudicating on a situation involving men and women.....

Thatescalated, I didn't mention the ins and outs of that conversation because it is disputed.

She says that's what happened but a few people there said that he didn't say that. Some of my friends who were there said he didn't even reply to her, just looked at her.

So I left that but out as I don't think it's as cut and dry as she is making it out to be.

There are probably other ways the speaker could have said fuck you to the women in the audience but wearing pictures of naked women on T shirts seems to be the most common one in the tech industry.

I am focussing of her reaction because I think it is detrimental to cause rather than helpful.

I feel like it is hard enough as it is without overreacting and overreacting just pushing scale in the appropriate t-shirt wearers direction.

Why would anyone even own such a shirt, never mind choose to wear it to give a speech?
Making your mind up to complain about something - especially if noone else is - can make you feel very anxious and vulnerable and is probably end up crying about it too.

Who even owns t shirts with topless women on them? Hard of thinking creeps if you ask me.

X post

If he told her to F off = rude and aggressive
If he didn’t even reply to her = rude and dismissive

@poopsqueak Well I think potentially if you are trying to progress women in tech perhaps stating you are crying and shaking in the toilet is pandering to unhelpful stereotypes of the 'hysterical woman'?

Third rule of misogyny again. A woman being angry (and nine times in ten, when a woman is crying it's because she's angry) is exclusionary. Here's an idea: she's been working hard-hard-hard to get women treated as equals in tech, has thought she'd made some progress, and then gets an epic kick in the teeth like that? Maybe she'd taken other women to the conference with her and this speaker had shown up the tech industry for the toxic sewage dump it is? I also work in tech and every time I see an incident like this I wonder why I stay. It seems like "progress" is a veneer and the hatred of women is still there underneath as a rot to the core, just one chip away from being exposed.

There are probably other ways the speaker could have said fuck you to the women in the audience but wearing pictures of naked women on T shirts seems to be the most common one in the tech industry.

This.

I guess I'm still not sure who I think is more int he wrong. I think they both are I guess.

I think his t shirt was not appropriate and completely mis judged and I think her reaction was extreme and explorative of the conference (the use of the official conference hashtag as opposed to official complaint procedures).

I'm still unsure!

But the problem is not women's reactions it is twonks like this man who contribute to a negative environment for women. Him and his defiant unapologetic attitude are the issue, not anything else. Focusing on shaming and chiding the woman for her reaction is part of the problem.

she's been working hard-hard-hard to get women treated as equals in tech, has thought she'd made some progress, and then gets an epic kick in the teeth like that?

And this

Why just put up calendars of naked women in the workplace to show it’s a male dominated environment when you can actually print them onto to fabric and take them around with you.

Women get told all the time that they shouldn't react in certain way because it's 'not helpful', 'damaging to the cause' etc etc. Fuck that to be perfectly frank. Women are always getting told to play nice.

Focus on the man who, had he not worn such a ridiculously offensive tshirt, wouldn't have caused the issue in the first place.

If there was a q and a I'd be the one standing up and asking, dude, what the hell?!