A bare breast on a t-shirt at a conference

[poopsqueak]

I was at a conference yesterday with many speakers.

The audience was of a digital nature.

One speaker came on stage with a t-shirt with a woman with a bare breast on (faded and 'artsy') and I didn't think much of it. He was 35, male and talking about an organisation he had founded. The talk was very interesting.

When the next speaker started the conference organiser came on stage and apologised for the t-shirt of the previous speaker and said he hadn't seen it prior to the speaker going on stage and mentioned a 'Twitter incident'

When the next speaker started half the audience were on their phones seeing what the 'incident' was. I found this very rude to the speaker who was speaking while lots of people were looking at their phones.

Turns out a person had left in the prior speaker posting on Twitter saying that they were 'shaking with anger' at the t-shirt and 'crying in the toilet'. They used the official conference hash so people could see. People began discussing and the person who was upset sent a lot of tweets about it.

I'm really in two minds about this. I don't think the t-shirt was great, but the guy said he was jet lagged and had come straight from the plane so maybe hadn't changed. I feel torn between the sides of a speaker wearing a sexualised t shirt on stage and what I see as a another person who I think has had gross overreaction that has cause upset for the conference runners.

I feel like the guy who ran the conference apologised as soon as he could and did what needed.

To further confuse me, the person who was upset then accosted the guy with the shirt outside and they had words. The person then tweeted that they had felt victimised by the shirt wearers language.

Really I just want some others perspectives on this incident as I am I two minds. I am all for (and talk actions to ensure) the progression of women in tech, but feel the slightly hysterical reaction to a t-shirt mire the message? What do you think?

I think his t shirt was not appropriate and completely mis judged

Why do you insist the insult was unintentional? It was a blatantly obvious insult and common as dirt.

Do you really think some guys distasteful too is a kick in the teeth though?

I would just think he's a prick and not be bothered.

@poopsqueak I am focussing of her reaction because I think it is detrimental to cause rather than helpful.

Rule one of misogyny: women are responsible for men's actions. In this case, you seem to think that the woman should be responsible for managing the consequences of this man's actions. He created the toxic environment by wearing a sexualised image of a woman, but you hold her responsible.

I'd ask again:

If you turned up to an interview and the interviewer was a man wearing that t shirt, would it make you think about the culture of that workplace?

Or would you think it cool, and not be bothered? What do you think women generally might think about the culture of that workplace?

Do you really think some guys distasteful too is a kick in the teeth though?

100% a kick in the teeth.

Is there a bigger sign that it’s a ‘lads pad’ than men putting up pictures of tits.

I don't hold her responsible for his action. His action was stupid and while I wasn't (personally) offended I could see why others might be mildly offended.

I hold her responsible for propagating a stereotype that women react in emotional/hysterical ways. Honestly can you say that you would ever be 'crying and shaking' in the toilets because you saw some idiot in an offensive top?

Its not just the one guy though is it? Like in a lot of industries you wouldn't get into the venue wearing that t-shirt , never mind on stage. It's incredibly depressing that in 2018 no one said to him before he got on stage "wtf are you wearing- Put a jumper on before someone sees that!" . No, he gets on a platform gives his whole speech and only afterwards something is said, because social media is paying attention. And even then, you're complaining that she made a fuss and spoilt the next persons speech because she was "hysterical".

I would just think he's a prick and not be bothered.

I am unclear on why you think you are entitled to judge other women based on what you are willing to tolerate.

@poopsqueak Do you really think some guys distasteful too is a kick in the teeth though?

As someone who has contributed to free software used to teach primary children, including girls, programming skills, yes, I do think it's a kick in the teeth. I look at the girls in our outreach sessions and I wonder whether I'm actually doing them any favours by essentially grooming them to go into an industry where booth babes and BSD daemonettes wearing just thongs and bodypaint were until recently deemed OK and where harassment is still the norm.

When you, personally, have worked hard to get amazing clever girls switched on to computing, and then you are "rewarded" by males objectifying women in geek spaces, it fucking hurts.

She says she was crying and shaking after her interaction with him/his group, during which she was spoken to aggressively and had her concerns dismissed. You believe this may not entirely be true.

I still think your focus on her is misplaced and we need to move away from the attitude some people seem to have that there is a 'right' way for women to behave if they want their concerns taken seriously (which seems to boil down to be nice and polite, don't rock the boat, and definitely don't get upset or anything that could even slightly be deemed 'hysterical').

Honestly can you say that you would ever be 'crying and shaking' in the toilets because you saw some idiot in an offensive top?

Google "PTSD trigger" and maybe you will be able to dredge up some empathy.

He wasn't "some idiot", he was giving an important speech about a company being held up as a good example in her industry. If it was just some guy sat in the audience or in the venue then it's less of an issue, although still not great.

Okay you don't like her reaction

But you are remarkably unbothered by his attitude .... Not a feminist I'm guessing?

His action wasn't stupid. His action was deliberately provocatively sexist and misogynistic. It wasn't a mistake. It was an in your face action.

I could see why others might be mildly offended.

The issue is you’ve decided how offended someone should be to this, and deemed the fact a man thinks it’s ok to use a young woman’s naked body as nothing more than decoration on his t shirt, and the fact that the naked woman on his t shirt has become so objectified that he thinks it’s now neuteral and ok to wear to a professional presentation.

It’s either a deliberate power play or a sign of such ingrained sexism that it’s just as bad.

I’d be furious if that happened in my workplace, I wouldn’t be ‘mildly offended’.

Some people need to get a grip of them selves i mean really crying ' shaking with anger . Come on we all have seen nakedness at some point. Would you cry or get angry if it was on tv or a movie. Get real people chill the F out

Oh for gods sake it’s not about nakedness, it’s about power.

Why would anyone even own such a shirt, never mind choose to wear it to give a speech?

Indeed.

Making your mind up to complain about something - especially if noone else is - can make you feel very anxious and vulnerable and is probably end up crying about it too

It was a stupid t-shirt. She could have complained to one of the organisers. I don't believe this scenario of being so traumatised by this but still broadcasting it on Twitter.

I have also checked Twitter and you have misrepresented what she said , she left the talk angry and shaking, tried to have a word with him about his t-shirt was inappropriate and was told to "fuck off" at which point she went home. Where's the hysterics?

If they ain’t your tits, you don’t get to use them to win cool points.

Oh for gods sake it’s not about nakedness, it’s about power

^This. 1000 times this.

'When you, personally, have worked hard to get amazing clever girls switched on to computing, and then you are "rewarded" by males objectifying women in geek spaces, it fucking hurt'

The irony! I do do that. I am a tech leader. I have interviewed hundreds of tech candidates and sit on a females in tech organisation board. That is why I am trying to have a reasonable conversation on MN.

I appreciate the comments saying that I am perhaps focussing on her behaviour but I am unapologetic in expressing cynicism at a tech blogger creating a story out of this.

As an aside I have contacted the conference organiser to discuss the CoC and dress code as I don't feel like Anyone should be in a place where they feel uncomfortable. And even though I personally didn't feel offended I can understand the offence taken even though I didn't agree with the method of displaying their disgust.

Why, yet again, are so many focussing on her reaction and not his behaviour.

Cross posted, that last comment wasn't only aimed at you OP.

I do think though there is definitely a culture of bloggers who live their life through a lense of looking for things to blog about to finally go viral.