A bare breast on a t-shirt at a conference

[poopsqueak]

I was at a conference yesterday with many speakers.

The audience was of a digital nature.

One speaker came on stage with a t-shirt with a woman with a bare breast on (faded and 'artsy') and I didn't think much of it. He was 35, male and talking about an organisation he had founded. The talk was very interesting.

When the next speaker started the conference organiser came on stage and apologised for the t-shirt of the previous speaker and said he hadn't seen it prior to the speaker going on stage and mentioned a 'Twitter incident'

When the next speaker started half the audience were on their phones seeing what the 'incident' was. I found this very rude to the speaker who was speaking while lots of people were looking at their phones.

Turns out a person had left in the prior speaker posting on Twitter saying that they were 'shaking with anger' at the t-shirt and 'crying in the toilet'. They used the official conference hash so people could see. People began discussing and the person who was upset sent a lot of tweets about it.

I'm really in two minds about this. I don't think the t-shirt was great, but the guy said he was jet lagged and had come straight from the plane so maybe hadn't changed. I feel torn between the sides of a speaker wearing a sexualised t shirt on stage and what I see as a another person who I think has had gross overreaction that has cause upset for the conference runners.

I feel like the guy who ran the conference apologised as soon as he could and did what needed.

To further confuse me, the person who was upset then accosted the guy with the shirt outside and they had words. The person then tweeted that they had felt victimised by the shirt wearers language.

Really I just want some others perspectives on this incident as I am I two minds. I am all for (and talk actions to ensure) the progression of women in tech, but feel the slightly hysterical reaction to a t-shirt mire the message? What do you think?

Those are not the only two options either, Mr.

@poopsqueak your comparison of a reaction to queue jumping is interestingly nothing like what happened at the conference. As far as I'm aware this woman didn't scream at anyone, or make any kind of scene in public. She took her upset out of sight, and then had the temerity to write about it.

Critique her reaction in great detail if you like. But others will critique you for being overly concerned with critiquing women's reactions rather than the actual cause of the issue.

@MrGHardy So either a boob on a shirt is so offensive it merits crying over or it's so unimportant that no one else would have backed her up. Hm.

You don't work in tech, which is such a misogynist shithole that women have been hounded out of their jobs by hackers launching technological attacks against their employers, because they dared to speak out against sexism witnessed at a conference. Don't believe me? Look up Adria Richards. So no, the complainant can't assume the support of other people in the room.

And, yet again, she wasn't crying over the tshirt, she was crying and shaking because when she said to the wearer that it was an inappropriate thing to wear to present at a conference, he was rude to her and posted a defiant selfie on twitter.

@assassinatedbeauty @poopsqueak your comparison of a reaction to queue jumping is interestingly nothing like what happened at the conference. As far as I'm aware this woman didn't scream at anyone, or make any kind of scene in public. She took her upset out of sight, and then had the temerity to write about it.

This. Plus, "someone queue jumping, then being rude when you call them out on it and making it utterly clear that they think queue jumping is A-OK", is a closer analogy to what happened.

@MrGHardy So either a boob on a shirt is so offensive it merits crying over or it's so unimportant that no one else would have backed her up. Hm.

There have been respondants on this thread who would actively oppose her if she called him out, such as the woman who claims to buy her husband tshirts like the one under discussion. How is she supposed to trust the people in the room?

Actually metro I'm going to have to correct you. Because the 'crying and shaking' tweet and the 'I've had to run out and hide in the toilets' was during the time he was speaking so she couldn't have confronted him by then.

Another thing mentioned downstream was his 'entourage' which whilst sounding indicating actually consisted of 1 woman who apparently swore at her (she says on twitter) but earlier it had been the man who had swore at her. As I said earlier my friend who saw the thing happened did say that he had saw the woman say something but not the guy with the awful t shirt.

As a survivor of sexual assault I also really took issue with her later on twitter for using the term 'victim shaming' when people were disagreeing with her. I thought to try and repurpose that very helpful term (to victims of sexual assault) to fit that argument a bit scummy. Admittedly I am sore about that.

One of you asked why I thought it was such a big deal. I think it's a big deal because overreactions like that cause people (both men and women) to switch off from the actual problem. They see the reaction, not the action. They roll eyes. They do not pay attention because the person talking about the problem is seen as dramatic.

It also makes such issues such as misogyny easy to dismiss (see the 'women are hysterical argument earlier').

I have said earlier that I find both the action and the reaction unwarranted. I wanted to reiterate that.

*sounding intimidating

So if that's how you feel why make it the issue that you decide to focus on? In your understanding of it, you're drawing people's attention to the reaction you disapprove of and inviting people to discuss it. Thus further distancing people from the actual issue. Which is much much more of a problem than this one woman and her behaviour which you don't like.

And from my experience, people who roll their eyes and dismiss women as hysterical will not take them seriously if they react in a way which is approved of. Because they're sexist.

I think it's a big deal because overreactions like that cause people (both men and women) to switch off from the actual problem. They see the reaction, not the action. They roll eyes. They do not pay attention because the person talking about the problem is seen as dramatic.

But you could counter this in the many ways that other posters have by focusing back on the T shirt rather than continually drawing attention to her behaviour, which is utterly irrelevant to the T shirt being sexist. And to be fair without her reaction we probably wouldn't have been aware of it and yet more misogynist behaviour would have gone by unremarked on.

@poopsqueak Actually metro I'm going to have to correct you. Because the 'crying and shaking' tweet and the 'I've had to run out and hide in the toilets' was during the time he was speaking so she couldn't have confronted him by then.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. We don't know why the tshirt alone was so upsetting to her, but one of the reasons why most workplaces don't allow soft porn tshirts as business attire is because we don't know everyone's past and so we try to make the place safe and comfortable for everyone. I suspect that fear of consequences of speaking out could have been a major driver of her emotional reaction, and given how he treated her and the reactions from some people on here, I would say her fear was justified.

One of my colleagues made a pun about rape a few weeks back and another colleague instantly called him out on it and he apologised. I stiffened and froze at my desk because it reminded me of a prior assault that I don't want to think about other than on my terms, and had to leave and sit in the staff room for a few minutes, and that was with someone instantly calling him out and him reacting well to that. Had no one called him out, I don't know how I would have reacted. I don't think I would have felt OK calling it out.

Because of this experience of my own, I'm sympathetic to the complainant and I really don't think we should police her.

Ok, that's a fair point. We don't know everyone's history.

When musing on this thread, potplant2's earlier post bubbled to my mind's surface: [being objectified and humiliated in public] destroyed my enthusiasm and enjoyment for that talk, but I put on a professional face and got through it. And so your enthusiasm for the subject matter won't have shone through to your audience and got them fired up about it. It would have done if you'd been introduced as a human and not a bit of skirt. This is where everyone in an industry is harmed by sexism: women do not and cannot do their best work when they are constantly navigating a hostile culture, and this impacts everyone around them.

Oh Jesus wept I can see why it’s out of order and I’m the fucking MRA....

Did poopsqueak ever say why she didn't say anything to anyone at the conference before choosing instead to post about it here online?

"Parts of bodies not a whole person"

Sort of how poopsqueak (aka bullshitter?) titled this thread 'A bare breast on a t-shirt at a conference'?

What? I called it that so it could be very clear what I was talking about. A bare breast on a t-shirt at a conference. I don't know how I could have made it clearer.

You might have noticed I posted the evening after the conference. After the incident actually, as we were notified by the conference organiser when he apologised before the next speaker. So the incident was kind of over when I realised it had happened.

My colleagues and I did discuss it quite a lot after the conference actually and I put some comments about the t shirt in a feedback mechanism afterwards.

I'm not sure what you are getting at tbh.

As a survivor of sexual assault I also really took issue with her later on twitter for using the term 'victim shaming

She actually believes she's a "victim"?
Jesus.

A man wore a sexualised image of a woman on his T-shirt (!WTF!!) when addressing a conference (!!!) involving both men and women. And taking into account women's continuing inequality at work, and sexual harrassment.

The fucker was clearly goading.

I salute the woman who called the pervert out.

I just think any bloke in any situation wearing that t-shirt is a dick and I'd disregard anything he had to say 🤷‍♀️

He's obviously a cunt for wearing the t-shirt, did he not look in a mirror at any time between putting the t-shirt on and stepping on to the stage to speak? He could have turned the t-shirt inside out...

Saying that, I've read the Twitter thread from the person who found this t-shirt so offensive that she was shaking and crying, obviously she is entitled to her opinions. However I am also entitled to an opinion, and in my opinion to use the phrase 'victim shaming' in relation to a boob on a t-shirt is just totally out of proportion. I am a rape survivor, and things like this in my opinion just totally minimises what victims of sexual assault go through. Obviously I don't know her history.

Instead of tweeting about it and how she was shaking and crying, surely handling it like an adult and going through official channels to complain would have been better? It's just a disproportionate reaction.

What has it achieved? He hasn't changed his opinion on wearing t-shirts like that in fact judging by his response he's locked down and is not changing the t-shirt or apologising because of this reaction. He's posted the good old Stephen Fry meme about offense.

If the wanker is not changing his T-shirt or apologising, then he is indeed a wanker of the lowest order.

Ofgs, BeefyCakes - do you realise that you are shooting the messenger, and ignoring the message here? Woman gets pissed off and upset by the dickhead and his pervert T-shirt, but it's the woman's fault??!! Really!!??

Well she's achieved a wider audience for his actions so more women can realise he's misogynist and will double down on it if called out. Handy to know if you were ever considering working for or hiring him/his company.

This man was never going to change his opinion, no matter how nicely a woman might have asked him. The event organisers made a weak apology and that was that, so clearly they don't give a fuck either.

Do we know that she hasn't also put in an official complaint?

Not entirely sure assassinated.

I have put a comment on a feedback form I was emailed, I assume she has done the same.

A couple of people also mentioned it on twitter before she commented so I also assume they have mentioned it too.

Well she's achieved a wider audience for his actions so more women can realise he's misogynist and will double down on it if called out. Handy to know if you were ever considering working for or hiring him/his company.

This is definitely the kind of information I'd like to have about the potential new boss before my first day at the office. Ideally before the interview in fact so I can probe a bit and see if whatever advantages the job might offer outweigh the unpleasantness of being forced to interact with someone so boorish.

OMG, are we back to the woman's reaction of blatant misogyny again? Clearly groundhog day.

This man was never going to change his opinion, no matter how nicely a woman might have asked him. The event organisers made a weak apology and that was that, so clearly they don't give a fuck either.

Very true, Assassinated.

My gawd, I feel like screaming - "misogyny, what misogyny, only fucking everywhere!!!" about a million times on this.

What part of 'inappropriate' do people not get? Sexism and obvious displays of male supremacy are NOT OK! Fuck, I feel like I am screaming it out for those in the slow seats, I really do. This is 101 shit.

And fucking shame on you OP, for being on a women's board and all. Please resign, let someone who actually CARES be given a shot in the role. You clearly do not. You only care whether this woman's reaction was deemed 'appropriate' or not.

You are failing your duty of care.