A bare breast on a t-shirt at a conference

[poopsqueak]

I was at a conference yesterday with many speakers.

The audience was of a digital nature.

One speaker came on stage with a t-shirt with a woman with a bare breast on (faded and 'artsy') and I didn't think much of it. He was 35, male and talking about an organisation he had founded. The talk was very interesting.

When the next speaker started the conference organiser came on stage and apologised for the t-shirt of the previous speaker and said he hadn't seen it prior to the speaker going on stage and mentioned a 'Twitter incident'

When the next speaker started half the audience were on their phones seeing what the 'incident' was. I found this very rude to the speaker who was speaking while lots of people were looking at their phones.

Turns out a person had left in the prior speaker posting on Twitter saying that they were 'shaking with anger' at the t-shirt and 'crying in the toilet'. They used the official conference hash so people could see. People began discussing and the person who was upset sent a lot of tweets about it.

I'm really in two minds about this. I don't think the t-shirt was great, but the guy said he was jet lagged and had come straight from the plane so maybe hadn't changed. I feel torn between the sides of a speaker wearing a sexualised t shirt on stage and what I see as a another person who I think has had gross overreaction that has cause upset for the conference runners.

I feel like the guy who ran the conference apologised as soon as he could and did what needed.

To further confuse me, the person who was upset then accosted the guy with the shirt outside and they had words. The person then tweeted that they had felt victimised by the shirt wearers language.

Really I just want some others perspectives on this incident as I am I two minds. I am all for (and talk actions to ensure) the progression of women in tech, but feel the slightly hysterical reaction to a t-shirt mire the message? What do you think?

my older DD has started developing (she's still in primary school) and I wait to see what she is in for. I hope things are different to how they were, better. We'll see.

Mine is 15, she is not particularly "well developed" and looks fairly young but she has had grown men whistling, leering and shouting out of cars at her. Also one shouted "lesbians" when she was with a friend (she was 13). On the plus side boys her age no longer seem to ping bra straps as they did to us.

On the plus side boys her age no longer seem to ping bra straps as they did to us.

Boys demanding blow jobs at recess has become a bit of a problem recently.

@gerbilsagain, men used to catcall me when I was wearing school uniform. I wish I'd had the courage to shout something like "go fuck yourself you sick paedophile because I won't". What else do you call a man who expresses sexual interest in a schoolgirl? Two boys sexually assaulted me in primary school, they probably grew up to be the kind of man who thinks a pornographic tshirt is ok workwear. Some of the commenters on here really have no idea what men put women and girls through.

Boys demanding blow jobs at recess has become a bit of a problem recently.

And boys coercing/tricking girls into anal sex is also a problem (BMJ had a study in it on that. That it was becoming "normal" for girls to think sex was meant to be painful, and for boys to think it was normal to make a girl have anal even when she didn't want to)

Late to the thread. But happy to read the volume of sensible comments pointing out critcising her reaction, rather than his behaviour, is indeed misogyny.

A couple of comments that are worthy of highlighting:
Metro: At best, they promote "Lean In" liberal man-friendly "feminism" that focuses on changing women rather than challenging the male entitlement culture that makes women quit (or not enter in the first place).

Particularly when the OP is on a tech board for women, that is supposed to be addressing that very issue. A huge case of dropping the ball, because women on boards like these should actually be well versed in Dick Supremacy Signalling, which is what that t-shirt was saying.

Gonegirlfriday decoded it with:
The thing about tshirt slogans and pictures is that they are not really for the wearer (unless you stand facing a mirror all day) they are in the face of whoever you speak to. So they are kind of a billboard for whatever you want to advertise

It is misogyny in plain sight. It advertises what this supposedly woke dude actually thinks of ALL in the women working in the industry. It goes further to actually undermine his diversity project. What a knob. A male-supremacist knob. That this dude actually owns a t-shirt such as that, tells you all you need to know about him and his sexist, objectifying attitudes towards ALL women (somehow, I feel compelled to keep pointing out 'ALL women') as there are women that think they are 'special' and 'cool', and accepted by the boys' club - bad news snowflakes, you actually are regarded as second class - patriarchy does not view their handmaidens any better than the rest of womankind, but they are happy that you will take some of the misogynist workload off them. You will be dumped when you no longer serve any useful purpose to them.

@LaSqrrl: (somehow, I feel compelled to keep pointing out 'ALL women') as there are women that think they are 'special' and 'cool', and accepted by the boys' club - bad news snowflakes, you actually are regarded as second class - patriarchy does not view their handmaidens any better than the rest of womankind, but they are happy that you will take some of the misogynist workload off them.

The phrases that springs to mind are "Uncle Tom syndrome", "Stockholm Syndrom", and "traumatic bonding", in particular the latter. Women who join in with misogynists in censuring other women are given crumbs (such as endorsement of their "women in tech" board that exists to make women conform to patriarchy) that they mistake for "treatment as equals".

Umm well yes I don’t frequent places where feminists congregate very often. I looked up the etymology of hysterical before I posted. I think there are lots of informal ways I would use to describe both men and women, chicks, girls, boys, lads, lasses, dudes, ladies & gents etc.

I totally get when certain terms are used mostly as perjoratives such as bitches which is why I would never use them. My lean is to use language that make the people around me comfortable, rather than argue the toss over what I meant vs how it was received. As it doesn’t half slow down conversation and communication.

Maybe in real life I’ve been given the benefit of the doubt or my female conversation partners haven’t wanted to engage in what they thought might be an unproductive tangent. However if I’m not getting the feedback I can hardly course correct, but I’m actually happy to do so in the spirit of mutual respect, tolerance and to keep productive discussion going, in the spirit of that apologies for taking up too much space explaining myself, but I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

Quite an interesting response to asking 'Is this the very first time someone has pointed out what 'hysterical' means and that 'chicks' could be offensive to women?'

I am genuinely stunned that this is news to you. Anyway - as you were.

One does wonder if a woman who buys her husband girly t-shirts is trying to make sure that no other woman gives him a second glance. It’s got to be as good as a sign around his neck saying “avoid me!”.

“avoid me!”

Yep, it certainly works like that for me.

Maybe in real life I’ve been given the benefit of the doubt or my female conversation partners haven’t wanted to engage in what they thought might be an unproductive tangent.

A degree of trust and care is necessary for women to give men feedback on their behavior.
The reason for women not to give a self declared MRA feedback are obvious to the meanest intelligence.

Women who join in with misogynists in censuring other women are given crumbs (such as endorsement of their "women in tech" board that exists to make women conform to patriarchy) that they mistake for "treatment as equals".

Good way of putting it Metro.
Of course it is all very conditional. If those women get too 'uppity' and actually promote the cause of females in any meaningful way, then watch the about-face.

Well clearly completely inappropriate shirt but that kind of level of upset...plus it was one person, everyone else while probably also not being happy, like yourself, did not feel the need to go all crazy. Sorry but in my eyes a total overreaction. Crying in the toilet, really? How about standing up during the talk and challenging him directly, rather than back-handed through victimizing yourself on Twitter.

Just for you, MrG.

@mrghardy Sorry but in my eyes a total overreaction. Crying in the toilet, really? How about standing up during the talk and challenging him directly

She challenged him in-person afterwards and it didn't go well. Challenging him during the talk would have gone just as badly. If you read the rest of the thread, we've addressed why it's entirely reasonable and understandable that she would be angry enough to cry.

But hey, you're a man, so despite never being objectified in your entire life, you still think you know better than women.

@Teacuphiccup I’m going to start wearing a t shirt of a passive looking young man with his cock out and see how long it takes for men to feel uncomfortable.

I'm tempted by a t-shirt quoting the Talmudic response to incels and wear it to the next tech show I go to. And see how long I manage to stay for before being told to cover it or leave...

I wonder how you would react if I was a woman. I hate to drag the user into this but this is from the first page:

I'm trying really hard to think of circumstances where crying and shaking in the toilet is not a huge overreaction...and failing

I appreciate where you are coming from, but not every opinion by a man that does not agree with yours is "a man coming to tell you what you should think".

According to the woman involved she confronted him after his talk and he was verbally abusive towards her. That's what resulted in her upset, plus the conference organiser's apology which she felt was inadequate and minimising.

Again, the focus is all on this woman and her apparently outrageous and appalling reaction rather than the genuinely poor behaviour of the man who chose to wear this shirt. It's clearly much more important to address the ways it is acceptable for women to react rather than the behaviour of these types of men.

Standing up and challenging him directly - yeah that’s easy! We could have solved racism centuries ago never mind sexism if only individual oppressed people had been more challenging!

Heh yes

Obviously it would have been very well received if she had stood up amongst all the attendees at this talk and accused him of being a sexist twat. Yeah she would have got loads of support from the audience and I'm sure the bloke would have taken it in good humour....

So either a boob on a shirt is so offensive it merits crying over or it's so unimportant that no one else would have backed her up. Hm.

It's not offensive. It's inappropriate and sexist. What reaction it caused is not the important part of the story, it's the behaviour of the man in question who chose to wear it whilst speaking at a conference. Why are you more interested in policing the woman's reaction?

Are we not allowed to critique anyone's reactions to anything then, if something has been done to wrong them?

For example, if someone pushes in front of me in the queue at Sainsbury's am I allowed to scream at them? Is that reasonable because I have been wronged?

Not trying to be provocative, just trying to understand why we aren't allowed to critique a reaction.

Obviously you can, poop, because here you and several others are blaming the person for having a major adrenaline trigger reaction to misogyny at this business conference.

It's just a reaction. Why is it such a big deal? Is it possible that some of you have never had your buts kicked by adrenaline? How fortunate for you.
I feel jelly. In my job it happened to me, all of us, at least once every week or two.

@MrGHardy I wonder how you would react if I was a woman. I hate to drag the user into this but this is from the first page:

I'm trying really hard to think of circumstances where crying and shaking in the toilet is not a huge overreaction...and failing

I appreciate where you are coming from, but not every opinion by a man that does not agree with yours is "a man coming to tell you what you should think".

If you go upthread, I have talked about being scared to send an email to a supportive manager about finding a Page Three Girl on an office wall at my workplace.

Go to www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3243189-Uncomfortable-about-unisex-toilets-at-work?pg=20&order= and search in the page for "My dad was a manager" to find out what happened to one woman who spoke out against workplace harassment. Speaking out is terrifying and can come with substantial adverse consequences, so it's not at all surprising that the complainant was shaking and crying.

If you were a woman with your opinion, I'd call you a handmaiden.