A bare breast on a t-shirt at a conference

[poopsqueak]

I was at a conference yesterday with many speakers.

The audience was of a digital nature.

One speaker came on stage with a t-shirt with a woman with a bare breast on (faded and 'artsy') and I didn't think much of it. He was 35, male and talking about an organisation he had founded. The talk was very interesting.

When the next speaker started the conference organiser came on stage and apologised for the t-shirt of the previous speaker and said he hadn't seen it prior to the speaker going on stage and mentioned a 'Twitter incident'

When the next speaker started half the audience were on their phones seeing what the 'incident' was. I found this very rude to the speaker who was speaking while lots of people were looking at their phones.

Turns out a person had left in the prior speaker posting on Twitter saying that they were 'shaking with anger' at the t-shirt and 'crying in the toilet'. They used the official conference hash so people could see. People began discussing and the person who was upset sent a lot of tweets about it.

I'm really in two minds about this. I don't think the t-shirt was great, but the guy said he was jet lagged and had come straight from the plane so maybe hadn't changed. I feel torn between the sides of a speaker wearing a sexualised t shirt on stage and what I see as a another person who I think has had gross overreaction that has cause upset for the conference runners.

I feel like the guy who ran the conference apologised as soon as he could and did what needed.

To further confuse me, the person who was upset then accosted the guy with the shirt outside and they had words. The person then tweeted that they had felt victimised by the shirt wearers language.

Really I just want some others perspectives on this incident as I am I two minds. I am all for (and talk actions to ensure) the progression of women in tech, but feel the slightly hysterical reaction to a t-shirt mire the message? What do you think?

I guess in the context of comedy it’s still ok though?

Up to you - it's not a word I use at all these days - because of the tainted associations.

Well I guess hilarious can suffice there too.

You might want to reconsider chicks too.

I don't think a self declared MRA is likely to reconsider the language he uses to refer to women, not have anything much to add on a thread like this.

PP poster was correct about "hysteria", idea that women are irrational because of our wombs.

I think that people need to grow up. Obviously it was unprofessional but hardly offensive. If anything it is a bit sexist to find a depiction of female nudity offensive.

DARVO
He's not hurting you. You are hurting him by saying he is hurting you.

Living in porn culture means that a shocking number of people consider the objectification of women in the workplace not sexual harassment at all but instead perfectly normal grown up behavior.

Ummm I don’t mind moderating my language if it makes people more comfortable. Why on earth would I not be?

@thebewilderness

Yes. I think it would be interesting to see how people reacted to a penis t shirt. If I spoke at events I'd do that experiment.

What an arsehole. He's incredibly lucky this didn't go viral.

Perhaps he's the sort that's so talentless he was hoping for a bit of alt-right attention to boost himself.

@Racecardriver no one finds images of naked women offensive. Just massively inappropriate in the workplace, for reasons many previous posters have explained.

Why do people seem to assume that objections must be based on some kind of puritanical prudish attitude to nakedness and sex?

You're right that people need to grow up though. Namely the man who thought his t shirt was suitable for a work engagement, and anyone who thinks he was right to wear it.

I can't really think of the equivalent of a tshirt with a depiction of a man.

Like what's the male equivalent of page 3? It doesn't really work as there isn't a male secondary sexual characteristic that has the same type of social / sexual stuff associated. Cheeky adam's apple? Saucy beard growth? Maybe a naked male bum is a similar level? That would probably be about right.

How would men in the audience react to a very big strong gay man wearing a tshirt with a sexualised image of a young man with his bare arse showing, in this situation? They would think it inappropriate, I'm sure. And they might wonder how the younger men who worked there might feel.

If anything it is a bit sexist to find a depiction of female nudity offensive.

Oh give over. I have nothing against female nudity. At all.

The female form doesn’t make me upset, it’s the context which makes this not ok.

Ummm I don’t mind moderating my language if it makes people more comfortable. Why on earth would I not be?

Can i just ask a question? Is this the very first time someone has pointed out what 'hysterical' means and that 'chicks' could be offensive to women?

I don't think reversal works with this stuff. Women are not generally a sexual threat to men, and there is no history of women systematically keeping men out of the workplace / out of certain roles, either.

The gay man analogy also doesn't work particularly brilliantly, but I do think that it helps. Like with street harassment, men always say oh I'd love it if women chatted me up on the street? If you say, what if it was a man twice your size and they wouldn't leave you alone, and they tend to understand just a little bit more (some of them).

@sardine they would surely find it inappripriate rather than offensive. There is nothing offensive about naked bodies. If a labuan turned up wearing a Trish with a print of coubert's gigantic vagina picture (forget the actual name of the painting) would that be offensive too? It's not like he was wearing a picture of Joseph stalin.

TERF the username is MRA, & indicates they are on this board related to trans stuff.

Racecardriver

Weird comment.

You can speak for all men?

There is one gigantic cunt in this picture, that's for sure.

(The man who wore the tshirt, for the hard of thinking).

There is nothing offensive about naked bodies.

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiigh

Well no if it’s your naked body, or at least a picture of someone enjoying themselves, but a pornified image of a passive (very young looking) naked woman is a political statement.

It’s about context too, lots of neutral things become offensive in certain situations.

No one is saying that images of naked women are offensive.

It wouldn’t be offensive if a lesbian wore a painting of a vagina as 1) she has a vagina and 2) it’s a painting.

Have you ever read about men's response to Dworkins speech requesting men give women one day with no rape?

Or the absolute meltdown that ensues when women wear S.C.U.M. Manifesto T shirts?

How is it possible to be ignorant of the interruptions and heckling women get when they speak, regardless of the shirt they are wearing.

It would be inappropriate to wear a tshirt with a pic of a vagina on it to speak at a work conference, though.

In case that needs saying

I can imagine a pic of venus de milo or david on a tshirt but that's not really quite the same, is it. And again, I'd say think twice before wearing it to a work conference.

Umm well yes I don’t frequent places where feminists congregate very often. I looked up the etymology of hysterical before I posted. I think there are lots of informal ways I would use to describe both men and women, chicks, girls, boys, lads, lasses, dudes, ladies & gents etc.

I totally get when certain terms are used mostly as perjoratives such as bitches which is why I would never use them. My lean is to use language that make the people around me comfortable, rather than argue the toss over what I meant vs how it was received. As it doesn’t half slow down conversation and communication.

Maybe in real life I’ve been given the benefit of the doubt or my female conversation partners haven’t wanted to engage in what they thought might be an unproductive tangent. However if I’m not getting the feedback I can hardly course correct, but I’m actually happy to do so in the spirit of mutual respect, tolerance and to keep productive discussion going, in the spirit of that apologies for taking up too much space explaining myself, but I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.