Questions from a liberal feminist to the rad fems

[daimbars]

Questions from a liberal feminist to radical feminists.

Inspired by this thread:
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3244342-Has-anyone-else-just-discovered-that-they-are-a-RadFem

I have a few questions for the rad fems. I do get the concerns with self ID and the discussions around that.

The questions I have are for those who have posted comments such as:

You can’t argue with biological fact / trans women are men / being trans is a mental illness

My questions are:

Are you saying the current Gender Recognition Act should be repealed?

If so, are you suggesting withdrawing hormones from those who have already transitioned?

Do you think a fully transitioned trans woman with a GRC to ‘prove’ she is a woman (eg Nadia from Big Brother) should use the men’s loos and be in a male prison / care home / hostel?

Do you think TRAs who say things on Twitter like ‘suck my ladydick’ and 'enjoy your erasure' are representative of transgender people as a whole?

Do you feel transgender people threaten your safety and well-being as a woman? If so what personal experiences (not what you have read on Mumsnet / Twitter / Reddit) have made you reach this conclusion?

Do you think current exceptions in the Equality Act (eg it is legal to exclude trans women from competitive spots and certain job roles such as rape crisis counselling) are sufficient to protect women? https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination

If your male child repeatedly told you they were female from the age of three, wore dresses, played with girls etc and were very distressed at the thought of male puberty, how would you help them?

My answers are no, no, no, no, no, yes. The last question I would struggle with the most but I would try to support my child to live the life they need to live as best I could. I guess this makes me a lib fem.

Dorade and this is where the problem lies. The medical profession acknowledges some people are 'born in the wrong body'. Some people are more experimental with gender. Everyone has very different experiences of gender and their own identity.

It's never affected me, I've always felt female, but I like to think I'm open minded to understanding experiences I cannot relate to.

If you view gender as a binary concept then it seems unfair to invalidate all the people who have a different experience than you.

*citation needed

daimbars I don't view gender as a binary concept. I mostly think it's made up bollocks.

I do view sex as binary (in mammals), because it is.

Stop confusing sex and gender.

If you view gender as a binary concept then it seems unfair to invalidate all the people who have a different experience than you.

No feminist views gender as a binary concept. That's a complete misunderstanding on your part.

Sex is binary.

Gender is a set of stereotypes for behaviour and personality imposed by society to the detriment of women, who are adult human females.

Feminism encourages gender non-conformity in both men and women. It simply doesn't believe you have to change sex to do it or that human beings have innate gendered identities, aka souls.

What potplant and camper said.

Well said reluctant

Or am I wrong, and the medical profession really believes in an immaterial soul which somehow inhabits the material body and which can accidentally be wrongly assigned before birth, presumably because Godcwadnt paying enough attention?

Potplant2

Gender reassignment is offered on the NHS

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

Daim, gender critical feminists don't think gender is a binary. Most don't believe in gender at all, think that it is a social construct and would rather we lived in a world where gender was irrelevant/irradicated. But GC people do believe that sex is a binary. It Is sexed based protections that are being eroded by making everything about gender, which is a social construct.

Agree sex and gender is too often confused - including in the GRA

How do you 'feel female' daimbars?

I can feel tired (heavy limbs, tendency to fall asleep)

But how do you feel female? If I put on a frilly dress I might feel feminine, but you can't feel female. It's simply an objective reality.

There is ZERO credible evidence for the extremely harmful 'born in the wrong body' narrative.

Gender reassignment is offered on the NHS

Is this because the medical profession believes in immortal souls wrongly assigned (“born in the wrong body”) or because they think this is a last-resort way of helping people with severe dysphoria to live in the mist comfortable way possible?

Gender reassignment is offered on the NHS but that doesn't mean there's such a thing as being born in the wrong body.

Apparently a symptom of dysphoria is a child playing with children of the opposite sex. Jesus Christ.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/

So do people think the NHS should leave this issue alone completely? Or are you happy with what is currently offered to people?

The medical profession acknowledges some people are 'born in the wrong body'

Do they? Just because they offer treatment of gender reassignment doesn't mean they actually believe that people are born in the wrong body. It means they have a way of treating the symptoms.

Which I believe only a small percentage of people take up.

It's never affected me, I've always felt female

How do you even know you are female?

I think the NHS should offer better mental health support to everyone, including people with gender dysphoria. Like many transsexual people I also think it should offer gender reassignment treatment up to and including surgery to the very few people whose dysphoria is so extreme they can’t live any other way, but this only after extensive gatekeeping and psychiatric assessment. Basically how things used to be before the TRAs jumped on board.

Just reading my last post back, I didn’t mean to say I’m transsexual - I’m not - just that I agree with Miranda Yardley, Debbie Hayton and others on this issue.

Excellent post from literally.

"I think we need to overhaul the whole fucking world"

^This!

Terfragettecity this is the interesting bit - I don't know how I know, I just do. Which is also what trans people say when they identify with a different sex than their biological one.

what Potplant2, with the addition that treatment that permanently changes the body (puberty blockers) should not be available to children.

I also feel that if I was born with the mind I have now but looked down and saw a penis and hairy chest I would be pretty upset about it.

So I have another question, if you were born 'you' but had a male body how would that feel?

If I'd been born with a male body "me" would be very different because I'd have been treated differently from the day I was born. "Me" would also always have had a male body and thus would not find it surprising to have one.

daimbars, If I had a male body I wouldn't be me. I would be a someone with entirely different experiences, and therefore, likely quite different opinions.

"What if you woke up in a different body?" is the premise for a silly film, not a brilliant insight into gender identity.