"I feel like a woman"

[pearsapplesbananas]

I am a transgender woman. The following doesn't in any way pretend to be a universal account of all trans women's experiences and thoughts, just mine.

When I say "I feel like a woman" to somebody, what I mean is:

I wish I was born in a female body. I wish I had a female reproductive system, and that I could carry a child. Every time I look into the mirror, I want to smash my face against it. Every time I look at a "normal" family, my heart sinks, because I will likely never get to have that. Hormones make me feel less bad. Besides easing my physical dysphoria, they have also important psychological effects (like some women experience with their cycles). They are a tool that helps me deal with my… bad luck at birth.

But I'm slowly starting to empower myself. Coming out of this endless spiral of self-disgust and self-pity. I might be wrong but, from what I read, it seems like there is a discussion framed as a dichotomy: that giving me a decent chance to life is a direct attack on women's rights. Well, I wouldn't see how, and of course, I wouldn't want it to be.

As a consequence, both sides of the discussion attack each other. Often, with what I consider cruelty, inhumanity and viciousness, lacking the most basic empathy. It's as if we all left our humanity at home, for our families and loved ones, and were fighting as animals against each other.

I think both sides could benefit from working together, we have many things to teach one another and many fights in common. For example, better healthcare. I read a post on this forum, about the access to laser by women with PCOS. In all honesty, I don't think a single transgender woman would oppose this. In fact, it's something that I (and many others) would advocate for. Similarly, there are many other topics framed as dichotomies that would more likely be solved if they weren't.

The only people benefiting from all this is people who regard women and transgender people as lesser than.

@EmpressOfSpartacus yes I have. But I don't think that it explains everything. Miranda Yardley is Gender Critical for a start so it comes from a place of bias. She is also a subscriber to the autogynephilia theory. Which for those that don't know is one that has been widely discredited via serious research. TBH I have yet to see a piece of non medical writing, is totally unbiased. The problem I have with a lot of the writing on this is that many of the writers on either side have in effect painted themselves into a corner. Both sides have. And FYI, when the world was widely homophobic in the 80s and 90s I stood alongside my LBG friends. I didn't walk away when they were diagnosed with HIV, or were shunned because they might have it. Sex with a trans person is a difficult one. My friend had a relationship with a woman who it later turns out was trans. There are ethical debates to be had around this but do you know what? He didn't care cos he liked her. But unless the person tells you, you may not know (admittedly female to male may be more obvious due to mastectomy scars, but then men can get breast cancer so who knows). There is a whole ethical debate around that. Personally I wouldn't care either. But thats just me. And thats the point. We are all human at the end of the day.

My concern on these pages is that when a trans person comes onto a page like this trying to articulate, through very limited media who they are and how they feel and gets slagged off for it on the whole.
We are all different and the science attached to this subject is very much in its infancy and is unlikely to be able to keep up with the pace of chance trans people would like. As I said before, I have many friends born male and female, who identify as trans and non binary, who are at different stages in their journey. As to their sexual preferences, some they all identify differently. But at the end of the day they are people. NOT monsters.
@IdentifiesAsMiddleAged from some of the posts that I have seen, yes some Gender Critical people do believe that.

Finally - I have used mixed gender loos myself. My main issue with this is the fact that men don't sit down and the inevitable wading through urine that comes with it.

Finally @smithsinarazz thanks. I think this is a topic worthy of discussion but not in the way it is being manifested in many places from both sides.

Sex with a trans person is a difficult one. My friend had a relationship with a woman who it later turns out was trans. There are ethical debates to be had around this but do you know what? He didn't care cos he liked her. But unless the person tells you, you may not know (admittedly female to male may be more obvious due to mastectomy scars, but then men can get breast cancer so who knows).

You're talking about people who have had bottom surgery and pass so convincingly that nobody can tell?

I'm talking about people who have made few changes or none and simply demand acceptance, which is what self-ID boils down to. Young lesbians are getting abuse for not being into penis.

That's the problem with one big trans umbrella and LGBTQQIAA. Make the group too inclusive & the people who actually needed it - like your friend, like young lesbians - get pushed to the bottom.

She is also a subscriber to the autogynephilia theory. Which for those that don't know is one that has been widely discredited via serious research

So why is there a movement calling to make autogynephilia a sexual orientation rather than a paraphilia?

It's still in the DSM too. I think discredited just means massive case of denial.

"She is also a subscriber to the autogynephilia theory. Which for those that don't know is one that has been widely discredited via serious research."
Not sure what you mean by the 'autogynephilia theory', but there are certainly some transwomen who are autogynephiles, by their own admission, and research is not as clear as you would like to claim. I suggest you go and look at the academic work of Anne Lawrence:

www.annelawrence.com/autogynephilia.html

for starters.

"There are ethical debates to be had around this but do you know what? He didn't care cos he liked her. "
This is a massive dismissal of the lesbian and gay community, many of whom are quite clear that their sexual orientation is based on sex -- hence a stealth/undeclared transperson, that would not be some interesting ethical discussion point as far as I'm concerned, but sexual contact without informed consent, hence assault as far as I would be concerned. So, thanks for the frankly insulting insinuation that lesbians boundaries should be erased if the lady concerned is nice enough.......................

Mrssnips

Please link to anywhere on here where anyone has said that. Where anyone has said or implied that transexual people with gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia like your friend are sex predators. I have never seen that view articulated on this forum. It has not been articulated on this thread either

Mrssnips

Are you denying that fetishistic cross dressing is a thing? You surely realise it is.

Which for those that don't know is one that has been widely discredited via serious research.

Link?

"She is also a subscriber to the autogynephilia theory. Which for those that don't know is one that has been widely discredited via serious research."

Oh really? Do tell more.

AGP denial is a massive red flag. I would urge you to stop regurgitating TRA nonsense and actually educate yourself.

AGP is the most researched paraphilia, with empirical evidence provided voluntarily by many thousands of late onset MtF transsexuals (aka AGPs) worldwide with new studies confirming the theory each and every decade including this one since it was first put forward as a hypothesis. It's been thoroughly tested, evidenced and proven. Science is not transphobic and science denial is completely counterproductive.

The science on transsexuals is also decidedly not in its infancy. (No study of a subject that has been intensely researched internationally for more than 80 years can really be said to be in its infancy.) You may simply not have been aware of it before you became a trans ally, but the discipline has made enormous strides in understanding transsexualism and transsexuals and in finding effective treatment options.

I don’t believe that anyone who had ever seen a woman naked and had sex with her could ever mistake a transwoman for a woman.

Maybe a very young, gullible, man who had nothing to compare a surgical vagina and male bone structure, figure, pelvis, smell, etc, with.... but nah, I just can’t see it. I think your “friend” is an imaginary one.

Only time will tell who is on the right side of history.

History is written (or re-written) by the winners. Which is why women's Herstory is not taught as part of mainstream education, and is largely hidden away. So what your statement tells me, about you, is that you wish to align yourself with the likely victors in this battle. Statistically, you are correct, male domination will probably win again. GC women will be the 'witches of the 21st century'. And everyone, including men, including you, can go back to worshipping men again.

Some of us will resist that though.

My concern on these pages is that when a trans person comes onto a page like this trying to articulate, through very limited media who they are and how they feel and gets slagged off for it on the whole.

You mean the trans persons who have declared women's rights to be anti trans? Why in the world would they be foolish enough to come to a Feminism and Women's Rights forum to "articulate, through very limited media who they are and how they feel" after their representatives have declared Mumsnet and Women's rights to be transphobic?

That is an unreasonable thing to do unless of course they came to troll women who refuse to share their beliefs and have the nerve to say no to them.
Then it makes perfect sense.

My friend had a relationship with a woman who it later turns out was trans. There are ethical debates to be had around this but do you know what? He didn't care cos he liked her.

Men put their dicks in vacuum cleaners and knotholes as well as other men and women, so your anecdotal evidence is worth bupkis.

I'm really trying to come at this from understanding both sides. But when I look at the behaviour and language used by some people, it makes me want to weep. They are saying things that are in the same vein as what was being said about Irish and POC in the 50s 60s and 70s and about the LGB community in the 80s and about disabled rights in the 90s. Only time will tell who is on the right side of history.

Funny you should mention that and completely disregard what has been said and done to women for thousands of years.
Bit of a tell.

My friend had a relationship with a woman who it later turns out was trans. (oooh, quite a shock/problem then, eh?) But wait, no problem at all.............

He didn't care cos he liked her. Come on, are we really expected to believe this? But unless the person tells you, you may not know Errr, I think we would.........

And here's the biggest insult. Re mixed gender loos My main issue with this is the fact that men don't sit down and the inevitable wading through urine that comes with it. How lucky you are then, that this is your main concern? I'm all right Jack, sod all the women and girls who have been raped and sexually assaulted who are afraid to be in the toilets with men! Even the ones who simply just aren't comfortable? Wouldn't have thought a HCW would have such little insight into women and girls feelings!!?

Yes, my main concern is that women’s toilets have been the place of safety I frequently ran to when my (on police bail) ex was standing between me and the door.

Offred, that's awful. Hope your life is better now. I can't believe other women are so flippant about men sharing our spaces. Unbelievable!

Oh yes, but there is a reason WA and rape crisis put posters/stickers up in the women’s toilets.... women’s toilets are as much about being a woman’s space as they are about toilet related stuff.

I think if anyone female thought about it for a minute they would remember a large number of times when they have been made to feel uncomfortable by a man in a public place and almost automatically excused themselves for a break in the ladies.... I believe this is a universal experience for women, even if they have never had it illustrated quite so sharply as in my recent experience.

Of course if a man was really motivated to come and get you out of the ladies then he could but that social convention is pretty powerful. My angry ex has aggressively banged on the door but he never came in. If it was unisex what would have stopped him?

Of course if a man was really motivated to come and get you out of the ladies then he could but that social convention is pretty powerful. My angry ex has aggressively banged on the door but he never came in. If it was unisex what would have stopped him?

As has been said before controlling jealous men would feel they needed to to stop you getting up to anything with another man. Whereas they are much less likely to bother to come into a space with only women.

My abusive ex would certainly NEVER have let me be alone with other men.

Offred, that’s appalling. What I don’t understand when I hear stories like yours is why people ignore them. Are they just not common enough? How many threatened women does it take? What is wrong with people that they just don’t get that women want somewhere safe from men or male-bodied people (whatever they are calling themselves, and however transphobic it is to use the term ‘male-bodied’)?
Or why women have to pile on example after example of why they feel awkward, uncomfortable, afraid, to justify their NO.

I think because the narratives say what I am saying is “trans people are abusive” when what I am saying is my abusive ex was abusive and the gatekeeping of sex segregation kept him out. That when I think back across my life there have been numerous instances when I have, and I know other women I know have, sought refuge from men who were making us uncomfortable or harassing or abusing us in the toilets specifically because it was a place those men would not go.

Also because women losing that refuge does not seem to concern those people. I wonder if that is related to the idea many of them have that what I see as sexual harassment is seen by them as validation of their identity.

Ex was really angry about me fleeing to the toilet. It was an instinctive reaction of fear for me rather than a conscious choice. Even though it always enraged him he never went so far as to violate the space.

Both of those things taught me a lot about how precious it is.

How my instincts would have handled that fear without toilets I don’t know, maybe locking myself in the disabled loo but on a few occasions when fleeing I have had comfort in the ladies from other women who understood and when ex knew I had spoken to someone about his behaviour in the loo he would not be able to unleash fury about it then and there... he knew people were watching.

Ex was really angry about me fleeing to the toilet. It was an instinctive reaction of fear for me rather than a conscious choice. Even though it always enraged him he never went so far as to violate the space.

I know the feeling, and used to do it at home too (slight derail). It was a stupid toilet that had a lock on the outside too and once he locked me in there. That was fun. But yes, like your partner he wouldn't have entered the ladies himself.