"I feel like a woman"

[pearsapplesbananas]

I am a transgender woman. The following doesn't in any way pretend to be a universal account of all trans women's experiences and thoughts, just mine.

When I say "I feel like a woman" to somebody, what I mean is:

I wish I was born in a female body. I wish I had a female reproductive system, and that I could carry a child. Every time I look into the mirror, I want to smash my face against it. Every time I look at a "normal" family, my heart sinks, because I will likely never get to have that. Hormones make me feel less bad. Besides easing my physical dysphoria, they have also important psychological effects (like some women experience with their cycles). They are a tool that helps me deal with my… bad luck at birth.

But I'm slowly starting to empower myself. Coming out of this endless spiral of self-disgust and self-pity. I might be wrong but, from what I read, it seems like there is a discussion framed as a dichotomy: that giving me a decent chance to life is a direct attack on women's rights. Well, I wouldn't see how, and of course, I wouldn't want it to be.

As a consequence, both sides of the discussion attack each other. Often, with what I consider cruelty, inhumanity and viciousness, lacking the most basic empathy. It's as if we all left our humanity at home, for our families and loved ones, and were fighting as animals against each other.

I think both sides could benefit from working together, we have many things to teach one another and many fights in common. For example, better healthcare. I read a post on this forum, about the access to laser by women with PCOS. In all honesty, I don't think a single transgender woman would oppose this. In fact, it's something that I (and many others) would advocate for. Similarly, there are many other topics framed as dichotomies that would more likely be solved if they weren't.

The only people benefiting from all this is people who regard women and transgender people as lesser than.

Just out of interest Pears, how are you going to handle incidents like that. Menacing, threatening, but no one else can see it?

Did the OP ever return?

No, must be too scared? They are going to have to man up a bit to become a woman!

With respect I have absolutely nothing to learn from transwomen.

I have respect for everyone.
Including transwomen and men.

If the trans community wish to have the very powerful support of women then in my humble view, they need to be fighting for unisex facilities alongsidewomen’s and men’s facilities. Not forcing their way into other people’s spaces.

A true transwoman would understand the vulnerability of young girls and older ones when it comes to changing etc.

So unless there is an ephipany of clear thinking of the consequences to women and children then there will be no meeting or minds.

Entrenched positions never work. Open debate, discussion and consensus usually does.

At a guess Wicked, inferiority - deep down, subconsciously, I think they know that. And just like schoolyard bullies, that inferiority drives them to take down anyone they see as a threat of exposing their inferiority.

Because, most of patriarchy is pure reversal. Once you understand that and look for 'the reversals', everything will just 'click'. So their big gaslight that men are more important, superior, more intelligent actually translates to 'men are less important, inferior, less intelligent' (to the species). The bonus for them off that, they have a slave class in which to get a load of unpaid labour. The latter is why patriarchy will be so hard to get rid of, even Nice Guys benefit from the system. Nice Guys are even aware of how they benefit.

Lesson learnt at 16 years of age--don't ever make a man look stupid.

Leggere, totally relate to this!

Has pears even responded to all of these messages? I cant find any response in the thread.

I would love to see a detailed analysis of transwomen's acknowledgement of their male privilege and socialisation. There have been instances of transmen transitioning from female to male, discussing how they moved to a far privileged category. Being gendered as a man carries so much privilege.

Ershkigal
"Lesson learnt at 16 years of age--don't ever make a man look stupid.

Leggere, totally relate to this!"

Yep. My daughter learned this lesson at 10 years old, when her quick wit and cutting snark accidentally gave a boy back better than he was giving. She was baffled that someone who had been a good friend suddenly turned into a giant asshole.

Has pears even responded to all of these messages? I cant find any response in the thread.

No. Perhaps pears didn't like the responses.

Seconded, Empress

@20pencepiece
"I appreciate your post but I must pull you up on this paragraph. The viciousness you describe is not on both sides it is 99% one sided from the TRA's.".

I beg to differ. I am practically being stalked by one 'gender 'critical' person who I won't name here. She repeatedly gets her really quite nasty FB page taken down, then starts a new one with a different name. Then she befriends my friends (we live in the same area of London) and starts rowing with me. And its really hate filled stuff. I have also been abused (albeit only verbally) by many other gender critical people just for being a trans ally. I agree that there are idiots on both sides but it's not as biased as you stated.

So you named one. Probably MHI? But one.
I have also been abused (albeit only verbally) by many other gender critical people just for being a trans ally.

Yeah, it sucks when people call you out for throwing women under the bus for 'being a trans ally', doesn't it? But it's not abuse, just truth. Your trans buddies want to take away the privacy, autonomy, and everything else for women, but you support them. Good for you! It's just NOT feminism, it is trans activism. Again, stating the truth, not abuse. Let's just hope it doesn't come back to bite you.

I have seen many a 'trans ally' suddenly realise what it is they are actually supporting. Maybe you will too one day. Maybe not. Time will tell.

It makes me so warm and fuzzy that you can dismiss the daily threats of 'DIAF' directed towards feminists, but have no concept that the Burning Times were only a couple of hundred years ago. It seems that many women are ignorant of women's history, particularly those of the 'trans supporting' nature. I suspect there is a connection.

@LaSqrrl. No I didn't name anyone. I mentioned one person in particular that appears to be stalking me, through my friends, and others who have verbally abused me. Like I said. I believe that there are right and wrong views on both sides (and some downright idiots on both sides). I'm actually a healthcare worker and so have a professional interest in this and have some trans women who I consider friends (not all involved in activism). Most just want to get on with their lives.
I have questions too as a HCW about trans issues (men and women for both exist and yet you all seem to be obsessed with one side). I struggle with the idea as a HCW of puberty blockers however there has long ( as long as I have been a HCW - over 30 years) been reports of people such as our OP who have experienced things like abdominal pain on a monthly basis at the time of puberty. I've also been involved in supporting people during their transition, and no-one does it because they want what little we women have fought for.

I have also seen some extreme self harm in trans women frustrated at the lack of progress in their medical transition - one individual cut their own genitalia off with a Swiss Army knife. I have never seen so much blood from one individual and I have worked in A&E for a long time. If you honestly believe that someone would do that just cos they want to go into a female changing room and abuse women then there really is no hope for you.

I'm really trying to come at this from understanding both sides. But when I look at the behaviour and language used by some people, it makes me want to weep. They are saying things that are in the same vein as what was being said about Irish and POC in the 50s 60s and 70s and about the LGB community in the 80s and about disabled rights in the 90s. Only time will tell who is on the right side of history.

@MrsSnips - so sorry to hear about your experience. Just shows that there are arseholes on either side of any debate. Also, yes, my friend Lizzie went through hell 20 + years ago, being beaten up, total strangers putting cigarettes out in her drink, etc - it's not just a matter of the Lilys of this world putting on airs to be interesting.

Pears -thanks for your contribution. I'm sorry you've had such a hard time. I can't speak for everyone else - and wouldn't want to - but I hope many GC people support your right to live as whatever the hell you want, without harassment or prejudice - as long as your rights don't override anyone else's, of course. Thanks for your willingness to enter into discussion.

"one individual cut their own genitalia off with a Swiss Army knife"

The thought of my child doing that to himself breaks my heart. I self harmed as a teenager, and was suicidal at times, and it's a complex and traumatic subject. I've been wondering for a while if there's a correlation between traumatic abuse of some type, and certain fetishes. And what causes a child to feel so "in the wrong body"? I think we have to learn to eventually love the skin we're in, or we'll never be truly content. Isn't that why plastic surgery is so addictive? There's always something else that needs to be "fixed". Expressing yourself by how you dress, piercings, tattoo's etc are often different in my opinion, and more about personality, creativity etc.

So many people assume all feminists hate men, or transwomen. We don't. Many trans people commit suicide after gender reassignment surgery. That makes me feel sad. I don't think they've proved extreme surgery or hormones etc always help. I wonder how many transmen act quite cocky and full of confidence, and go home and take off the happy mask while they do their pelvic squeazes and check for hair in there. As far as I know, neo vaginas will heal if the "wound" is not kept open? And certain skin graft types can cause hair to grow and cause infection?

I don't want that for my son! I'd rather he wore sexy lingerie over his lady dick and tit implants (which are quite common these days and reversable), a hot dress and a ton of make up. I don't care what he wears, how he talks, or who he'll sleep with (as long as he's using condoms). But having a lady dick, aka a regular penis, and regular hormones, he'd still be 100% male, and I'd think he should use the mens toilet, changing rooms etc. Fuck what other men think. The patriarchy and misogyny play such a big part here.

"....and about the LGB community in the 80s.........."
Except many of us are from the LGB community, and were there in the 80s. We know. And saying someone is a man, or isn't a woman, is not the same as the homophobic abuse we got in the 80s (or yesterday, frankly). This is a bad analogy.

Not all of the LGB ever wanted the T added BTW............Despite the fact that it was gay venues which were a safer area for various trans folk back then. We know what we are objecting to, and why.

Not all of the LGB ever wanted the T added BTW............Despite the fact that it was gay venues which were a safer area for various trans folk back then. We know what we are objecting to, and why.

I came out in the late 90s, so a bit later. But I'm immensely grateful that I got to do it among a supportive community of women who took it for granted that lesbians were same sex attracted, and that anyone who had a go at you for that was a homophobe.

What about the homophobic abuse that young lesbians get now if they refuse to see transwomen as sexual partners?

"If you honestly believe that someone would do that just cos they want to go into a female changing room and abuse women then there really is no hope for you"

Nobody believes that.

I'm bi. I had an ex years ago who had agp, and it wasn't the sex, with what was essentially what the thai's would term, "a ladyboy", that was the problem. It was all his other issues, odd things he did, not taking no for an answer, being slovenly and treating his mother like his servant etc, that made me dislike him. The male side of his personality was very masculine, and the feminine like a bad, cringe worthy, slutty vacant, silly "coy" caricature, outside the bedroom. But he kept insisting he was a woman. A very masculine, misogynistic, ignorant of womens biology, testosterone fuelled woman . I'm no prude, I have no problem with kinky people, as long as they keep it consensual, but men with fetishes often over step boundries. Sexual compulsion?

That whole experience gave me a lot of food for thought, before turf was even a word. I'm a turf by all definiations, yet I've done what no tra ever wants to do -or admit too, and that's having a sexual relationship with a trans person yet they STILL know better--. The whole thing gives me a headache if I think about it too much. And that's just the agp driven men, never mind the ones with body dysmorphia or who are gay, (are some gay men trying to escape being gay "man attracted to men", by trying to become females? I have so many questions. But they never get answered).

... sorry. Pressed post too soon.

The point is that anyone, penis or not, who says they are a woman will be able to enter women's facilities, and that some of them could have nefarious purposes. They would not need to feel or show gender dysphoria.

In other words, a man, who has no desire or intention to remove his penis, let alone be so desperate to do so that he self-harms could call himself a woman and claim rights that women have fought for

*definitions

^^ that was to Mrssnips

Have you seen this letter from the Guardian, by Miranda Yardley, Kristina Harrison, Debbie Hayton & others, Mrssnips? www.theguardian.com/society/2018/may/04/standing-up-for-transsexual-rights

yy Mrssnips Do read that if you haven't.