"I feel like a woman"

[pearsapplesbananas]

I am a transgender woman. The following doesn't in any way pretend to be a universal account of all trans women's experiences and thoughts, just mine.

When I say "I feel like a woman" to somebody, what I mean is:

I wish I was born in a female body. I wish I had a female reproductive system, and that I could carry a child. Every time I look into the mirror, I want to smash my face against it. Every time I look at a "normal" family, my heart sinks, because I will likely never get to have that. Hormones make me feel less bad. Besides easing my physical dysphoria, they have also important psychological effects (like some women experience with their cycles). They are a tool that helps me deal with my… bad luck at birth.

But I'm slowly starting to empower myself. Coming out of this endless spiral of self-disgust and self-pity. I might be wrong but, from what I read, it seems like there is a discussion framed as a dichotomy: that giving me a decent chance to life is a direct attack on women's rights. Well, I wouldn't see how, and of course, I wouldn't want it to be.

As a consequence, both sides of the discussion attack each other. Often, with what I consider cruelty, inhumanity and viciousness, lacking the most basic empathy. It's as if we all left our humanity at home, for our families and loved ones, and were fighting as animals against each other.

I think both sides could benefit from working together, we have many things to teach one another and many fights in common. For example, better healthcare. I read a post on this forum, about the access to laser by women with PCOS. In all honesty, I don't think a single transgender woman would oppose this. In fact, it's something that I (and many others) would advocate for. Similarly, there are many other topics framed as dichotomies that would more likely be solved if they weren't.

The only people benefiting from all this is people who regard women and transgender people as lesser than.

Wishing you were a woman and 'feeling like a woman' do not mean the same thing. There is no such thing as 'feeling like a woman' because all women are individuals and can only feel like themselves.

Saying that you feel like a woman can seem offensive to women because it implies that there is a set of things that you must feel in order to be a woman. And that's simply not true.

Having a female reproductive system is not a feeling. Most of the actual 'feelings' you might ascribe to being female are usually based on stereotypical bullshit. Am I still a woman if I don't like pretty things and am not particularly warm or empathetic? Yes. If a man likes pretty things and is warm and empathetic, does that in any way mean he's really a woman? No. Whether you are male or female is not based on ypur feelings.

I was quite taken by bloodmagics post there.

Where has pears gone?

That was just beautiful Bloodmagic, thank you

I know I am late to the discussion but I don't have motivation to read it all now, so I will just ask and if it's a rehash someone just please copy paste the answer.

As awful as your situation sounds a) It sounds like you have actual dysphoria, something self ID would not require and b) do you think this feeling makes you a woman? Do you think 'woman' or 'man' for that matter, are just 'feelings' and biology is irrelevant?

And sorry but you can't expect others to validate your feeling of womanhood just because they (should) feel sorry for you. Like a little child crying until it gets what it wants.

Pears didn't join in!?

I might be wrong but, from what I read, it seems like there is a discussion framed as a dichotomy: that giving me a decent chance to life is a direct attack on women's rights. Well, I wouldn't see how, and of course, I wouldn't want it to be.

You are wrong.

Gender dysphoria is the only mental illness where the sufferers are trying to pass laws requiring all citizens share their beliefs, or pretend to.
Framing this as your "decent chance to life" is a clear indication that you do see how you are wrong.

Transgender identified males and others who share their beliefs continue to come to the Women's Rights section of Mumsnet to politely request that women set themselves on fire to keep men warm.

When we say no they assume it is the beginning of the negotiation.
Here's me saying no, again, and thank you very much for asking instead of telling. However, I feel very strongly that people who refuse to take no for an answer, for whatever reason, are not safe to be around.

I hope you can take this on board applesandpears. Much of what people are saying is challenging and then revelatory to women, let alone someone like you.

Please don't think that because we care most about ourselves we don't care about others - telling us that is just throwing back in our faces something that is drummed into us from a very young age. As such it come over as really really manipulative

I don't think anyone here is opposed to you having a decent life. No one here is opposed to you having a glorious and joyful life! What we are opposed to is the idea that you must 'become a woman' to get that. Because you can't. They only way for you to become any sort of woman is to change what 'woman' means so much that it no longer describes or applies to women. Obviously, that would not be not OK and would be an attack on women's rights. I am a woman. You are a transwoman. We are both humans equally deserving of peace, dignity and respect

Hear hear Bloodmagic

There have been a LOT of 'both sides are as bad as each other, feminists should be nicer' posts these past few weeks. Is this the new angle?

Many moons ago, when feminists were organizing anti-rape campaigns at my university and I got involved, my male flatmate and another bloke in a tutorial group took very against it. I got called names (well, "lesbian" which TBF I didn't think was offensive but they did) and also told I was shrill, and angry and nasty and all the other things men say to women to make them shut up. It hasn't changed one little bit in decades.

Women should be nicer and men can ignore us.

I've just read read this entire thread from start to finish and it was amazing!

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

Good old Charles Dodgson. Nailed it.

Terfulike

I agree

If you were new to MN and read only one post, I think this might be the one to make you understand

Thanks to pearsapplesbananas for starting it...

I think it is only fair to mention the rules.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

I'm really sorry that you are so unhappy with the cards that nature dealt you. However, I think it would be better for you to come to terms with who you are, and learn to love yourself as you are, a transwoman.

You will never be what you wish to be. And trying to steal women's rights and places won't make any difference. You were born a man.

We were born women and only we can possibly know what it feels like to be women.

Seems we may have shattered Pear's world view that trans have it worse than women.

Either that, or a bit of seagulling. Who knows?

LaSqrrl oh god I just Googled "Seagulling" on my work's PC! Ooops haha hadn't heard that term before

I would encourage pearsapplesbananas to follow @JustAngryBird (founder of Trans Oxford) and @RoseOfDawn for their nuanced perspectives. They are both trans women.

This (long) thread from @JustAngryBird is really interesting and begins,

"Sex Wars and how to end them

What makes a woman? We all know that biology makes a female of the species with a distinctly different reproductive system from that of a male. There’s no arguing about it. And women are adult female humans and they don’t have penises."

twitter.com/JustAngryBird/status/994143600144502784

But they haven't even bothered to "seagull"

NB apologies, both names above refer to Twitter accounts, not Mumsnet ones. I should have made that clear.

In 2018, did you ever think you had to read on the internet:
And women are adult female humans and they don’t have penises.

Me neither.

Bloodmagic that was an excellent post, you summed up a lot of the thoughts that were whirring around my head, quite articulately.

Why is misogyny still such a thing? What's the root cause? Is it a feeling of inadequacy, or fear of the potential for feeling like that? Is that why so many misogynistic men hate it when women make them look stupid? Or is it an actual sincere belief that men are better, and women inferior?

Is that why so many misogynistic men hate it when women make them look stupid? just brought on a horrid flashback! I was 16, at a disco. Dancing with a large bearded bloke (about 25). I was wearing a long blonde (colour relevant) wig and he kept pulling it teasingly. I shouted over the music three times to stop it and pushed his hand off. I could feel the wig slipping and was worried it was going to come off in front of everyone. He kept doing it so I walked off the dance floor. A bit later he found me, pressed me against the wall, put his face right in mine and snarled "don't you ever fucking do anything like that again, blondie". As he was snarling/menacing, he was covertly tipping his glass of beer all down my front. Ran off with my friend to the bouncers, who laughed and said it was my own fault for walking off mid dance. He did it in such a way that my friend didn't even see the beer being tipped and thought he was talking close to my face because of the loud music. His mates were also standing nearby, I think they knew what he'd planned to do because they were laughing and looking embarrassed at the same time. The worst thing was, the look of sheer hatred in his face looking right into my eyes! Lesson learnt at 16 years of age--don't ever make a man look stupid.