Genderquake

[Terfragette69]

Are we ready for this?? I'm already angry....... Just from the trailer.

I haven't seen this debate, but I have to say I'm finding it fascinating how polarising it is. If you read Twitter and then read here, the interpretation of how it went from the two opposing sides reads like they both attended different debates. For me, it seems to sum up how polarising the entire issue is.

I am totally gender critical, a TERF if you will. I am concerned about how we will ever get past this whole thing, if any discussion that doesn't centre around 'trans women are women' is seen as 'transphobic'.

It doesn't sound like it took a 'Question Time' sort of format?

Owl loves a bit of no platforming.

Thanks R0wan will post again here:

(No credit, from twitter!)

twitter.com/gabcsika_me/status/994220006325080066?s=21

The number cruncher.

Thanks . Do you know anything about the source of those numbers. How reliable are they?

The data was created by the person Ekphrasis has linked to, Gabriella@gabcsika_me. Gabriella has also uploaded the file to filecloud.io/hqozd0mep. There is dialogue on their twitter feed about how, when and why etc.
Gabriella has commented, "I'm not saying there was no mistakes in it, I had to keep pausing and writing down the pause times, rewinding, and I'm really only taking into consideration obvious interruptions rather than dialogue. But I reckon it's a good attempt and fairly accurate."

(from pinned tweet,
"I live in Poland. I have gender disphoria.
In Poland abortion is illegal, there is no epidural on demand and cesarean section is "emergency only".
No matter how much I were to identify as a man, the facts and how society sees me won't change.
Fight the system. Free females.")

When is the next Genderquake show on? Is it the "What Makes A Woman" with Munroe next?

Today's article in The Guardian by Gaby Hinscliff is definitely worth a read, www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/10/the-gender-recognition-act-is-controversial-can-a-path-to-common-ground-be-found

It discusses Genderquake in the wider context with a great deal of balance. Includes discussion about WPUK.

I hope it will be shared widely.

current thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3244904-Finally-a-balanced-overview-article-in-the-Guardian

Just watched this - can someone try to explain to me please about Brooke, the girl who said she was xxy and who had transitioned naturally.
I dont get why she described herself as a transwoman - why would she not be intersex - or am I really stupid

Trans is cooler than intersex. Nobody gives a shit about people with intersex conditions unless they can be shoehorned in to somehow validate trans.

The Polish woman who did the timings on the debate sounds amazing!

Fight the system. Free females. - I want T shirts, mugs and stickers

@ceecee32 she was a boy who changed when she hit puberty and grew breasts and physically became a woman. She is a woman as she has more female chromosomes but she has a penis. She joked that she is trans as her body transitioned naturally. To be fair she is entitled to call herself whatever she chooses as she is pretty unique. She is very beautiful and totally together

Not a woman. Klinefelters is a male condition.

Its all very interesting. Thank you

@Ekphrasis hi, on the quoted graph, it says 'Butlerite', I've tried Googling. Any idea what that means? Thanks.

Italian

It means that they support the postmodernist feminist view of Judith Butler in that they believe identity and expression is more important than biology and class.

Arghhh I just watched the debate as had it recorded !! This has all likely been said but I just need a fucking rant !!
I had to turn it off !! Honestly I despair ! I should add because I feel I should I'm not anti trans . I just worry were this is heading particularly with self id .

Any decent conversation was just talked over wasn't it . " I worry self Id could be abused" somehow equals = " you are lumping all trans people with abusers " HOW???? That's literally not what she said is it !!

I get they have an agenda , they are a minority and will do whatever it takes to back themselfs but for the love of fuck don't just dismiss logical argument !

It speak volumes there were no actual men on the panel . It's not a men's issue is it . Imagine a ( albeit strange ) scenario were male to female trans were arguing they wanted to identify as women but still want the right to use the men's toilets . Imagine the uproar then . Would never happen anyway .

Biological women - the lowest in the pecking order, the first to be dismissed and to blame for everything , ever since time began.

Fuming

Sorry I am being rude and didn't rtft.

I just watched the debate - and OH MY GOODNESS Cathy Newman was out of her depth wasn't she?

She was so shit I could tell it was just nerves and she kept asking Jenner to speak even though Jenner had sod all to say - just talking pampered luvvie celeb anecdote bollocks at a slow, slow pace which Cathy Newman obviously found hypnotic and relaxing.

It was pointless. Why did they ask an audience of invested people to attend if they weren't asked any questions? Stephen Whittle was there as was Dr Radfem, Julia Long, Hannah from Man Friday - it could have been such a great debate. What a wasted opportunity letting Bergdorf and Jenner prattle along endlessly.

Perhaps it was the set up that made Cathy Newman freeze - being surrounded by the audience like that - she really cocked that up big time.

Thanks Ereshkigal.

Out of interest anyone who saw the 'documentary' (misuse of that word) think it interesting the two trans women ended up both fancying Howie the lesbian? I think at the end they all felt a connection as people and it seemed that 'gender' mattered less. Or it certainly seemed to to Saffron. Which I felt was a good sign.

Rose was there too, she is fabulous, and a trans woman and very articulate, unlike Jenner who was boring.

Oh yes I spotted Rose too. Some great people were right at the front.

Such a shame none got to speak. What a waste.

Posie Parker said on twitter that Cathy Newman told the audience to engage and that the heckling was asked for. (Although maybe the interpretation of engage was different to that Newman expected). She also says she was told she would be asked a question, which she wasn't

The fact that so many people turned up, willing to speak is a sign that they are willing to discuss this and thrash things out. There should be a new debate held with a new chair who doesn't freeze like a rabbit in the headlights.

We've been robbed!

Stephen Whittle also said that the audience was told to cheer and boo. And lots of guests were invited and told they'd be given space to speak and weren't.

The whole thing was a set up, designed to cause maximum friction by C4. And a woman has been suspended from her political party because of it.

Is there any point in writing to channel 4 and asking for a new debate. Can anyone suggest how to contact Rose and co and ask for a debate with ordinary people, informed but but super star Olympians!

I would love their to be some set questions or 'propositions' that people could engage with. Eg "Self id will increase the risk to trans women and women of it comes into force."

I'd love to hear the Girl Guides UK, or whatever their name is now, defending their position to include natal boys in tents with girls.