Genderquake

[Terfragette69]

Are we ready for this?? I'm already angry....... Just from the trailer.

R0wantrees thanks for that. I really need to get back onto twitter

Huffpost's article:
"Channel 4 is facing criticism after a live debate, which was part of its ‘Genderquake’ series, saw panellists Munroe Bergdorf and Caitlyn Jenner heckled with transphobic abuse...
...However, viewers quickly grew uncomfortable when members of the audience began shouting transphobic comments during the debate, and when Munroe called for them to be removed by security, her request was ignored."

(interesting to see which twitter accounts feature in the article)
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/genderquake-the-debate-munroe-bergdorf-transphobic_uk_5af2ab48e4b0a0d601e7e995

Oh my just seen from an image on that article how excluded Sarah was in her positioning! Why was she not seated within the circle! Again, women being fricking pushed out of the conversation

Outnumbered and biased in the sense that they should have had a fair split people of any sex/gender/identity/feelz for each opposing side of the debate. That's what a debate is.

"As part of their Genderquake season, last night Channel 4 aired a live debate with a host of voices, including Munroe Bergdorf, Caitlyn Jenner, Germaine Greer and Sarah Ditum. Often, it made for distressing viewing, which no doubt terrified young gender-questioning people watching at home."
continues....

Amrou Al-Kadhi writes:
www.independent.co.uk/voices/genderquake-channel-4-debate-genderqueer-transgender-caitlin-jenner-munroe-bergdorg-sarah-ditum-a8342771.html

Debate is allowing for equal chance of opposing views to be put forward and then both sides to be equally discussed, rationally and intelligently. What took place last night was certainly not a debate. Maybe watch Question Time for a bit of a better view on what a debate should look like or attend a local debating club oopster

I watched it and was appalled by the treatment of Greer and the lack of respect for Ditum’s right to be heard. Jenner was incredibly dull and irritating, the whole show would have been better if Jenner had not been included.

The host was not effective in ensuring that arguments were aired and was particularly unpleasant to Greer, and unnecessarily deferent to Jenner.

There were a lot of articulate people with strong opinions in the audience who were not given the opportunity to speak, while Jenner wasted precious time on completely irrelevant anecdotes (what does any of this have to do with them being dyslexic?).

The consensus from the transgender community seems to be that the transgender panelists were treated badly and shouldn’t have been exposed to such a hostile environment.

Channel 4 appeared to have succeeded in pissing off everybody – amazing! gender critical feminists and TRAs agree on something! – that show was crap and unhelpful to anyone. It’s a shame, because there was a potential for a proper discussion, but it just wasn’t facilitated.

People had been invited to be in the audience specifically to take part and then that didn't happen. I think the shouting out was rude but I can understand the frustration if people were expecting to be able to have their say and then that didn't happen.

It was chaired very poorly.

And no, a debate involves a motion and then an equal number of people speaking either for or against and then usually a vote from the floor as to whether they agree or disagree with the motion. That wasn't a debate. The WPUK meetings aren't debates either.

I do think those supporting the hecklers last night are hypocrites if they condemned Munroe shouting out during the (I think ) Bristol Meeting. Conversely, it'll be interesting to see if that's aired in the documentary next Wednesday and whether Munroe will suddenly be all in favour of shouting out heckling by then...

Ok, so in that case, the Womems Place Meetings that have been touring the country aren’t legitimate debate either, thanks for clarifying that.

Woman's Place meetings aren't televised by a national public service broadcaster in prime time. They also do give the perspective from trans people.

I tuned in, hoping to hear a debate. But I think it was poorly handled all round, no one seemed to get a chance to clearly make a point. Seems more like a set up to antagonise and polarise. I am genuinely interested to hear and understand the issues here and I don't think this has aided my understanding much. Not a reflection on the panellists, but the way the debate was facilitated - or not.

Beamur

I do agree with you and to be fair, noone seems to be happy about the way it was handled.

Ok, so in that case, the Womems Place Meetings that have been touring the country aren’t legitimate debate either, thanks for clarifying that.

The women's place meetings have never been framed as being a debate, and besides which Munroe Bergdorf was invited to and attended one recently and AFAIK other individuals with similar viewpoints to Munroe have also been invited. So.

Usually on any panel, its men who are listened too, deferred too and allowed to speak more than women.

I found it very enlightening the only person who called themselves a man on the panel was almost totally ignored, and the two males who identified as women given the most airtime.

It was very clear who they thought were men and who women, and that was nothing to do with gender.

Usually on any panel, its men who are listened too, deferred too and allowed to speak more than women.

I found it very enlightening the only person who called themselves a man on the panel was almost totally ignored, and the two males who identified as women given the most airtime.

It was very clear who they thought were men and who women, and that was nothing to do with gender.

inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/genderquake-channel-4-germaine-greer-trans/
Comment by Owl:
(extract)

"The show is framed as a respectful, nuanced discussed about gender, where all points of view get to be heard. Sounds pretty polite and reasonable, right? I thought so too, until I learned that they planned to give platform to transphobic speakers that have said horrendous and damaging things about people like me. This will inevitably spark more negative media coverage that will only continue have had long lasting negative consequences to the mental well-being of trans people, like a recent study shows. The show is a perfect example of how my rights, my identity and my reality is seen as a point of debate. While I’ve been a campaigner for over 10 years, I have never experienced as much hostile media coverage of trans issues as in the UK. For the past 2 years that I’ve been living in there, I have been in constant shock by the way the media treats trans people and the amount of misinformation being put out there by allegedly respected platforms.... continues"

Im always baffled by this " my identity isnt up for debate" argument.

If you want an identity that isnt up for debate, choose one that fits you.

Women are female, and actually, our fucking identity isnt up for debate.

YY Hypolytta.

Oopster - Jenner had by far the most talking time and Greer was interrupted by tthr host almost as much as everyone else put together. 4 trans ppl on panel and off the 3 non trans one was TRA. Sarka and Bergdorf spent almost ten times as much time interrupting as everyone else combined. And you’re saying it wasn’t biased. Your intellectual dishonesty is saddening.

Sorry, still laughing at 'totes amaze balls'.... Sums her up perfectly. 😂😂😂

There is a very detailed breakdown of time speaking / number of interruptions etc for each of the individuals in the debate posted by @Ekphrasis 15:33
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3243464-Channel-4s-Genderquake-Debate-is-heavily-criticised-boycotted-by-prominent-transgender-activists-allies?pg=22

The women's place and we need to talk meetings are not debate, they are consciousness raising. However both have invited people with opposing/different views to come along, listen and raise their issues. Trans activists haven't had the guts or the arguments to turn up to the meetings themselves for the most part, only stand outside in masks or try and punch women into silence. Bergdorf turned up in Bristol but the accounts I read suggested they were only playing up to the camera they brought along and huffed out when they didn't get the limelight they perpetually seek.

Not looking forward to seeing C4's spin on that in "What Makes a Woman" documentary

Posie Parker said on twitter that Cathy Newman told the audience to engage and that the heckling was asked for. (Although maybe the interpretation of engage was different to that Newman expected). She also says she was told she would be asked a question, which she wasn't.