Genderquake

[Terfragette69]

Are we ready for this?? I'm already angry....... Just from the trailer.

Just a reminder that Cathy Newman was being groomed by All About Trans as long ago as 2013:
www.allabouttrans.org.uk/interaction-with-cathy-newman-channel-4-news/

Not coincidentally, I suspect, she did Lily Madigan's TV interview.

Well someone said she was a 'good ally' on twitter

Jordan Peterson showed that Newman's critical thinking faculty is weak.

Spotted Rose- Rose of Dawn (full name ??)

Wonder if channel 4 would allow a follow up with neutral non-celebrity host/interviewer and let non celebrity trans and gender critical and trans gender critical panel members talk about self id. Then we might find some common ground and empathy

Talking about it with Dh last night. He commented on how Cathy turned to CJ , the elder male, for the summing up, rather than to Germaine, the oldest person, and the academic with decades of experience. He said if you wanted to show teenagers patriarchy in action you could just show them this programme. Alpha male gets most airtime, even though he is dull and dim. Intelligent and interesting females get talked over, or made to look confused. It was tragic really. I feel depressed today.

Sarah was awful, most neutrals I've spoke to said she was the worst by far.
Going on about old arguments and conflation about some man and gender neutral toilets, it was transparently derailing.

Then she tried to to talk over and presumed she knew better about trans men, than an actual trans man.

It was embarrassing, also germaine greer made a point about caster semanya in sport, a cis woman...... all the anti trans arguments sounded like gibberish.

He said if you wanted to show teenagers patriarchy in action you could just show them this programme. Alpha male gets most airtime, even though he is dull and dim. Intelligent and interesting females get talked over, or made to look confused. It was tragic really. I feel depressed today.

Read this.

Sarah Ditum's comments via Twitter:

"Amazing that that debate happened at all, so wheels not spinning off till halfway is an achievement.

• Trans activists don't want to talk about men who'll abuse self-ID
• "They'll rape you anyway" is a bad argument
• & trans activists are stunningly chill about sterilising kids"

twitter.com/sarahditum/status/993988706599096321

Sarah Ditum did know better than that particular trans man. She was quoting facts, the rest were all about emotions and personal stories. Which are irrelevant. Could that trans man deny that they are effectively sterilised? I know the trans woman on the show who has had the surgery stated that it was sad they could no longer have their own children. I suppose it is a good way to deal with overpopulation in a way. Get this generation so confused that they voluntarily sterilise themselves at a young age before they realise how amazing having your own children is.

I am sure this has been said before, but the thing I took away from this is that, once again, those born male are telling me I must accept a label for myself. They are choosing what to call themselves, but they are all choosing what I must use for myself. I am not a woman, I am a CIS woman, and if I don't accept that then I am a TERF. I am a woman, plain and simple and I would hope they would be respectful to me and refer to me as such. Except they won't. Because this is all one way, once again women must do as they are told.

This thread isn’t showing up for me anywhere, unless I type the header into the search box, why is that ? It isn’t in “threads I’m on “ for instance.

I am rather new to this whole trans debate - only had my eyes fully open to it after having so many Trans threads pop up on MN and I got reading. Before I was rather "let them be whoever/whatever they want" and that was it.

I watched the 2 shows (need to watch the "debate" still though) and I think the thing that has struck me the most from the show is how it came across, that to be a woman is to be a sexual creature with an immaculate features. It was like Saffy couldn't class herself as a woman because she wasn't pretty or sexual and the Transwomen were women because they wanted to be pretty and enjoy being sexualised objects.

It worries me that there is massive issue with these new genders that we are actually trying to force people into social constructs of what is "girlie" and was is "boyish" and therefore you must be a woman or a man to match. Never mind it is biology that dictates gender and everyone's personalities are allowed to wildly vary without needing to match their "gender"

I think DH hit nail on head for me when he raged about how it felt the transwomen were playing a part on what they thought women are - sexualised objects. He stated that the blonde transwoman appeared to only be interested in the lesbian because it is a typical male fetish and therefore another sexual knot in their belt.

On a similar ponder, the transman also appears to be playing into the typical social construct of what it means to be a man - they said that being seen as tough and manly was important in their culture and I wonder if when their mum left they had to become tough which they associated with being a male trait. That coupled with liking women made them feel as though they must be a man?

As a bisexual woman, I can understand the confusion some of these youngsters are going through but I have never thought I should become gender fluid depending on who I fancy to fit a social norm of sexuality. I am just me, but yes I am a woman.

Jeez sorry for long post too! and apologise if it seems like a load of ramblings without much proper thought (because that is what it is!)

SirVixofVixHall it shows up for me

Twittle thanks for letting me know, it is so strange, it wasn’t showing for me last night either, nor was it showing in active or in FWR. I can’t see it at all unless I type it into the search box or keep it open.

twittle
the reason Caitlyn and Monroe were invited was exactly what you said, to re-inforce the nonsense that being trans is to sexualize women, millions of women portray themselves in the same way regardless.

The panel, was hounded by anti-trans people in the comfy seats invited by channel 4, something to do with Ian Katz???

I would guess that they panel were briefed beforehand on the topics to be discussed. Did anyone get the impression that GG was expecting to talk about something different than her comment (evidently made) on the Victoria Derbyshire show. She said more than once that she thought that Cathy was going to talk about something else. This definitely threw her and of course MB jumped on this to belittle GG. Very direspectful.

The whole thing was badly organised and run, CJ was just so boring, brattling on about nothing. Agree with others that both CJ and MB were given way too much airtime.

Sarah did well.

Interesting seating formation - I think if Sarah and GG had been sitting next to each other it would have made for a better conversation.

I think they tried to cover too many topics in too little time so none of the points got to be fully explored or developed at all. Though what the hell Jenner’s endless, tedious prattling about peeing in Trump Tower was supposed to illustrate was beyond me, so when time was given (usually to Jenner), it wasn’t used well! I would have liked to have seen Sarah and Munroe really have a chance to discuss in depth; I thought they were both the most interesting and I wanted to hear what they had to say.

It was really badly hosted and that journalist woman was the most annoying person I’ve ever seen on tv.

@JustABrokenDoll "I didn't hear that bit re: Markus, probably popped to the loo - I'm watching on catch-up and it won't pause."

I WAS WRONG!!! Marcus was not talking about an ex boyfriend of his, he said "When Howie told me he was trans." He was talking about Romerio.

I've gone back and asked for my comment to be deleted as it was completely wrong. Marcus was I think cheated on by a former partner and that was why the truth was so important to him. But I was completely wrong to say that he had had a trans boyfriend, I misheard. APOLOGIES.

"I came back part way through Romario's face to face with their mum (which I must admit brought a tea to my eye)."

Yes, indeed. It seems Romario has a very tough time of it.

"Max's story also had me in tears when I watched it recently."

Heartbreaking isn't it?

crispbuttyfan - I wouldn't call it nonsense. Women have the right to sexualise themselves. Men don't have their right to sexualise women's bodies.

lostlemon - possible that they kept them split to prevent them from having each-other as support? Sounds like it was a real fail of a debate giving an unfair air-time to self-entitled "celebs" rather than actually discussing the issues surrounding the gender debate - including the threat to women's work on equality.

lostlemon
Did anyone get the impression that GG was expecting to talk about something different than her comment (evidently made) on the Victoria Derbyshire show.
Yes I thought that.

I also thought (yet again) that Sarah Ditum was absolutely amazing. She can keep her cool under pressure, she sticks to the point, she comes across as well informed and articulate.
I think she's an amazing spokeswoman and role model.

I haven't seen any of this yet, so can't comment on the ins and outs of the documentary and the debate, but I just wanted to say to TwittleBee what an interesting post that was.

I have seen on twitter that Germaine hadn’t been on the Victoria B show at all, hence the confusion .

Posie Parker's account of the debate (from her Twitter thread)

"I met up with #manfriday, Sarah Ditum & Rose of Dawn. Germaine Greer sat next to me & was delightful! When we got into the studio I was given my place to sit. As I looked around it dawned on me that not only the panel was biased but also the audience.

Women who don't think women have penises were in the minority. I was privy to Newman's script... CAITLIN it read, CAITLIN, CAITLIN.... It wasn't a gender debate after all it was the Caitlin- so boring that his male sense of self importance can't be masked- Jenner show.

What happened was an acute lesson in women being put in their place, Newman allowed Ditum to be constantly interrupted, even when in mid sentence and yet told Sarah to allow Munroe to speak even when he'd interrupted her in the first place.
‏
From the off Ditum was disadvantaged as her chair wasn't part of the group but set back a little, so anytime shew wanted to talk she had to push herself to the edge of her chair. Ash-Girls in India die because they wear skirts-Libfem moron was too irritating to tweet about

The two born females consisting of "I hated wearing skirts" and "every time I go food shopping I wet myself because toilets are upsetting" were routinely ignored, decorative pots in the Green house of Trans ideological knotweed aka men. The whole program was to indoctrinate.

The audience are supposed to think "trans women are the most oppressed women" a little tricky to believe when your view is blocked by a very tall millionaire who literally got away with killing someone. Not too oppressed from where I was sitting.

Manroe talked about the mortality rate of trans women being aged 35, these statistics are as idiotic as they sound. He also had a really hard time with women speaking and calling out, perhaps if the program makers hadn't been so biased there would have been no need.

I was told I would be asked a question, but I think it was just a lie to get feminists in the audience. I am told Gendered Intelligence or GIRES did diversity training with the ITN teams a couple of weeks ago, is this true @iankatz1000 Overall the debate was shocking.

Sarah should be proud of herself, watching it back she was articulate and clear and anyone could see she was treated with disdain and y'know like a woman. Newman proved that she's unprofessional and peculiar about women, I'm glad @jordanbpeterson wiped the floor with her.

PS.Germaine was blindsided and gaslit by Newman, she has never been on the Victoria Derbyshire show.

And @cathynewman told people to engage, the heckling was asked for....it was a set up."

twitter.com/ThePosieParker/status/994151978585542657

crispbuttyfan "the reason Caitlyn and Monroe were invited was exactly what you said, to re-inforce the nonsense that being trans is to sexualize women"

What makes you think that?

I think they were chosen because they are high profile trans women. I imagine Channel 4 thought it was quite good to get someone so high profile as Jenner.

Sadly, Jenner was as boring as last week's fish and chips and I hope they are regretting it. Why not pick a regular trans woman who could talk about real experiences, not peeing in Trump Towers!

Do you have any evidence of what they were picked?

"... millions of women portray themselves in the same way regardless."

Do you mean millions of women dress in a sexy way? That's up to them.

Sarah Ditum, who was brilliant.

R0wantrees - thanks or posting that.