Genderquake

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Are we ready for this?? I'm already angry....... Just from the trailer.

The transgender woman saying "I am homosexual woman.. no, I mean heterosexual woman - let's get that right!" kind of said a lot - this gender identity stuff - even the protagonists are tying themselves up in knots about it, and getting stuff wrong. So bloody confusing. How do they expect me, a woman in her 40s with 3 kids, who constantly calls them all by the wrong name - to get this right - when they don't, and have to correct themselves?!

Reminded me of Channel 4s My Big Transexual summer.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Transsexual_Summer

I also liked Brooke. I don't know enough about the intersex condition she had but I suppose to me it is confusing the way it was presented. It is a 'male' intersex condition, and I wondered what it meant for her body to 'transition'. But that was a medical interest and beyond the scope of the programme really.

I actually was surprised at who I was more drawn to! Not who I would have expected to be drawn to. I also felt that actually the differences were quite large, between the two straight non-trans people, between Campbell and Charlie (who was proud to be trans) and between the only gay male non-trans person and some of the others.

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/may/07/genderquake-review-reality-experiment-tv

"...Filomena blunders into the arena with a series of remarks about female identity that feel almost gratuitously provocative, given the company. As she states “I have a womb. Women can bring life into the world,” and the dinner table winces and splutters, it’s hard not to wonder whether her tactlessness has been poked into being by a producer with a sharp stick."

It's hard to imagine how we got a place that biological fact makes people wince and splutter. But there you go. Must get to bed.

Yes Charlie's 'homosexual woman' bit was funny.

Not that this programme would explore it, but there has to be a racial dimension to the attitudes of Romario and Filomena, and to other people’s attitudes toward them. They come out of such firmly traditionalist societies as Jamaica and the Republic of Ireland.

Does Birds Eye advertise on C4?

Asking for a friend.

LOL!!

I also like Saffron and found Saffron to be lovely and engaging. Why have all the bother of being 'non-binary' and the binder. Just be Saffron and like blokes or like women and be bi or gay or straight.

They did say they wouldn't be putting themselves through all this if it they didn't have to. It was almost as though they thought they were more qualified to comment upon their psyche than you are.

Would be simple if we stopped conflating sex with gender.
And stuck to terms such as woman, trans women and transvestite.

Will it be repeated? It's not online yet so might need to watch as a repeat

With regards to Romerio, he comes from an afrocaribean culture, where I'm imagining it is difficult to be a lesbian, which is what he is.... Thoughts?

Yes Terf, gender reassignment prevalent in Middle East where there is death penalty for active LGBs.

I sympathised with Romario when he asked when you can stop being trans and just "be" the gender you want.
The problem with being trans is you can't. Because you are biologically a different gender to the one you want to be life is one long game of dressing up. Hence the ultra femininity and always worried about passing of the 2 transwomen.
I'd love to see being a feminine bloke become more acceptable, not camp as that's a different game with different rules that also seems artificial.

This show left me pretty unvomfortable in places.

1. Saffron is a woman. A very feminine faced woman who seems to have a lot of self esteme issues tied into her prettier twin sister. The whole nonsense about feeling different and not knowing what toilet to use everyday. You use the female one. Your female. Easy. 2)Romario is a lesbian who i agree with op. Seems to come from a background possibly where being a lesbian is not ok. Very hidden depths. Obsessed with the idea of masculinity. When i first saw him i wasnt sure if he was an effeminate gay man or a ftm trans. I dont think he passes.
2. the "lesbian" is actually a butch bisexual woman who also seems to use sexuality as her personality. Now she is attracted to someone of the male sex class she cant claim to be lesbian.
3. the issue of talking about klinefelter syndrome seemed very off to me. Someone with klinefelter syndrome is 100% male. Its a male disorder. The producers sort of implied his body is naturally part female so that was that when thats wrong.
4. the bathtub thing was strange. Women dont routinely bath together even best friends. Weird. Reminded me of the trans woman on big brother who sat around topless in company as if thats what women do.
5. the trans man was being bullied. Even before his wrong relationship with filomena (which felt like trickery) when he went into the sea they bitched and gossiped and told everyone in the house but him amd filomena. Imagine if they were talking about a trans woman.

Predictably Twitter is full of the usual suspects spewing out the usual garbage. Do they honestly believe that repeating "transwomen are men" over and over again is going to make a jot of difference?

I really don't understand how anyone could look at those young people with such anger and hate. They're just kids ffs. And they don't give a fart if people approve of them or not.

I hope people are recognising that the violent TRA often depicted as the norm on here is a world away from the reality of young people's lives. The anti-trans ideology which has attached itself to the extremes of feminism is despicable.

Old farts - like me - need to realise that the future is not ours to create. Well done CH4. This show should prompt a lot of people to do some soul searching.

tibetantripehound,

While I agree it does show that these young people are fairly typically just young people and not at all like the idiotic tra's, it is still apparent that lots of this gender bending is a trend, it's fashionable for some to be staving out their gender bending as a means to be unique and different. It is also quite apparent that this is a very complicated subject, Saffron for example is almost certainly been affected by her relationship with her prettier sister. While this young group seem perfectly reasonable, there are those who are most definitely not reasonable and are most definitely bullying other people to be completely complicit in their reality, that is not okay. I fully support people's rights to live as they wish, but I will not be bullied to believe a dog is a cat. If all trans people described their biological reality, but accepted they are trans I would happily too. But they are insisting they are their identified sex and I won't accept that.

But they do care about people's opinions of them which is why they have all the angst about "passing". If it was more acceptable to say gender is a load of nonsense you can have masculine females and feminine men and that doesn't mean you are transgender. You should be able to be the person you want to be without worrying about pronouns and appearance.
If people didn't think "she" meant girly feminine woman and "he" meant macho man then being mispronouned wouldn't be a thing as he would just mean XY and she XX and they would not be seen as personality attributes.

It is the double speak that I find disturbing. I agree with some of tibetantripehound says - in that the older generation will end up stepping aside and allowing young people to live their lives as they wish - but we can't just do away with biology.

So, a conversation in the house last night went roughly along these lines:

T - "so are you are woman?"

C - "I identify as a woman yeah, genetically, I don't know, I don't have the surgery"

T - "well, I thought you were a woman, though"

R - "well she is a woman"

T - "No you are a woman, sorry"

C - "No, yeah, I identify as a woman"

Is making me feel like I'm going mad. So, maybe a gender revolution is happening, and we will all just have to accept the new language ("pregnant people" "menstruators" ) but somehow I feel that this is throwing women under the bus. If we can't now say "woman" and mean that this relates to our biology, to having a womb and a vagina, being XX - then it does feel like erasure.

Yes but I'm not yet dead or in my dotage. So personally speaking, Tibet, I'm not just going to step aside and let women be erased and our sex based oppression rendered invisible. Sorry for the inconvenience. I'm actually thinking more of the next generation and the need to safeguard them from the thoughtless narcissistic idiocy of this one, and my own.

Hound: we say 'trans'women are men' because it's true. That's all. It will never stop being true. Yes it's boring. Not much we can do about that.

The anti-trans ideology which has attached itself to the extremes of feminism is despicable
The anti woman ideology that has attached itself to the extremes of trans rights is despicable.

Also agree with what Hypp said. If you need to mutilate yourself to fulfil your ideology, then your ideology has gone awry.

I've just watched this now. Haven't read the full thread so apologies for any repetition etc.

It made me rather angry tbh

I felt really sorry for saffron and Brooke they seemed to just have been dragged into something that's not about who they are.

Tbh I do t understand how they can all be friends the relationships all seem built on validation. They don't seem to really care about eachother half as much as they feel is an achievent that a lesbian fancies them.

Marcus had no right to out romario but then i think he had a point in that everyone else was talking behind his back and he was the only one who had the decency to say it to his face and they all blame Marcus now?

This is what happens when you live on a house full of people who are liars. You can't trust any of them and o tho k you lose the right to be surprised it goes tits up tbh

It woukd be different if hey were all just casual acquaintances you'd not have any kind of real relationship with them so it wouldn't matter.

It all just contradicts itself so much and tbh they all seemed sodding confused which is hardly surprising

“The problem with being trans is you can't. Because you are biologically a different gender to the one you want to be life is one long game of dressing up. Hence the ultra femininity and always worried about passing of the 2 transwomen.
I'd love to see being a feminine bloke become more acceptable, not camp as that's a different game with different rules that also seems artificial“

I wonder if we lived in a society where we sll dressed the same, all had shaven or short hair, no make up etc - would gender/ gender identity even be a thing?

Giles

I don’t think that’s fair. They’re all stangers thrown together and only known each other for a few days in manufactured, manipulated weird circumstances- and what we see is edited for a purpose they can’t control.

I’m fairly impressed so far and think the group are doing as well as they can under the circumstances.