I am a transwoman, ask me anything.

[AriadneRose]

I have been following what has been going on here and on twitter, and thought maybe it would be helpful to open a dialogue that is not reactionary or fueled by anger. So I am offering my own personal perspective as a transwoman, and am willing to answer any questions people might have, and I will try to answer them thoughtfully, respectfully and honestly.

Note: I did not create this thread to stir up trouble, I just feel open dialogue from both sides is necessary for us to move forward.

*Why do TIM’s reject the idea of the provision of third, gender neutral spaces?

Why are TRA’s unwillingly to compromise and find solutions that work for everyone?*

This is kind of what I'm getting at to and I think its answer is really pertinent to this dialogue. It comes down to whether trans people in general feel that it is enough to be treated with respect and dignity in their own right for who they actually are, or whether they are only interested in bending reality as a form of validation.

I know this sounds blunt and confrontational but it is really not my intention I just think it is really important to establish what the underlying thinking is, and I think it's being evaded.

Yes, definitely want to know more about rejecting masculinity rather than changing it. Insisting women have to change to accommodate but men don’t? Also, calling out the root of the problem, Male violence, when does the fight against that start?

OP you say "but I am legitimately afraid to leave my house because I live in a rural area, and the only time local people discuss trans issues, are usually because a trans person has been harassed or beaten."

Who is it who is doing all this harassing and beating? I'm guessing other men?
You should be going down your local working men's club and educating them, not Mumsnet

Me! I haz questions

How much time have you spent reading threads in this section of mumsnet? Do you think you have gained an understanding of some of the concerns raised by regular posters?

Have you looked at past threads started by Trans identifying males and considered whether you had a unique and new experience that was worthy of a whole new thread?

Have you explored the rest of the forum and participated in other conversations? Or is this the only topic you really want to discuss with the women who frequent this corner of the interwebz?

Do you understand that it is biology that is at the root of female oppression?

Have you noticed that there are now public spaces that have toilets for men and for all genders (formally women)? Do you understand why many women find this concerning? Do you know when the first female public toilets were available in your town, or nearest big city?

I am a woman.

I do not need to take life-long hormones, have operations and spend hours convincing people I am a woman.

I can wear jeans and a T-shirt and no make-up and short hair and no-one would ever mistake me for a man.

Society judges me because I have chosen not to procreate.

I may experience some sex-specific diseases in my lifetime.

I do not and never will know what it feels like to be a man.

The only thing women have in common is their biology, and the experiences - and politics - directly related to that biology. The rest is personality and choice.

The only reason to try and separate 'woman' from biology is that it excludes people who are biologically male. And it places the desires and feelings of those people above the social, political and practical needs of 51% of the population, making the pecking order and superiority involved very clear.

Why can't people who are biologically male just dress and name themselves and live any way they choose, however feminine, non conforming to gender stereotypes or limitations? That is absolutely something to celebrate and be proud of.

I'm hoping Ariadne will be another fine exception, SpareRib.

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer but the chances of this when an OP is all about themselves rather than about women are close to zero. Jaded? Me? I'm sorry to say that I am.

Hi Ariadne. Well done on living your truth.

I would just like some perspective from yourself, I have many friends in the LQBTQ community but no trans..we all agree on what I'm about to say, but I'd like to see what you have to say from your own trans experience.

Currently, there's been a huge surge in support for the queer community and this next generation are more open and accepting. There has been a wave of younger people coming out as 'trans' (school kids). A friend, who is gay and a teacher, has commented about the amount of teens suddenly 'identifying' as trans (currently around 10 at the school he teaches at, and we do not live in a high population area). I sympathise with teens truly dealing with this, but I can't help feeling some of these children are doing it for attention and will regret their decision in a few years when they have matured but have already started/made the transition. They get special treatment at school, home and over social media, and teenagers especially feed off this. They might be gay or confused in reality, but by being openly 'trans' they are getting noticed in a way they wouldn't normally. This could be detrimental to people genuinely going through this, in a similar way some people feign or exaggerate mental illness for attention, making it more difficult for those who are really in need.I am wondering whether you agree that the amount of youngsters transitioning is just because of society now being more open, or there is genuine concern that some children are using trans as a way of getting attention?

I know. I'll still hope. At least Ariadne isn't going on in page-long paragraphs and uses language that mostly makes sense.

Who is it who is doing all this harassing and beating? I'm guessing other men? You should be going down your local working men's club and educating them, not Mumsnet

Mmm, can I suggest you don't do this without taking a larger older brother or friend with you, Ariadne?

I stated earlier in the thread my opinion on safe spaces for women, I acknowledge the need for closed spaces that only women who are born as women are entitled to. I think the worry for a lot of trans people, is the fact that we are a minority, that we will not get a third space. And I think a lot of trans people, myself included, let our own privilege get in the way of that. We have grown up with the privilege of our birth sex, and we forget that we are not entitled automatically to other resources because we change gender.

Sorry for being slow, I am feeling a bit overwhelmed. I am sorry that this thread feels like me mansplaining or trying to force my narrative, I didn't make it clear that I wanted to learn more about the issues women are facing, especially in regards to the TRA. I have already learned more about aspects of my privilege that I had never really considered before, and I would hope to learn more. But if people feel that this thread is not needed, I am more than happy to bow out.

The rewards of masculinity are very unequally distributed, the alphas get all the glory and then there's a long tail of bog standard blokes who feel like they don't amount to much
One solution to this dissatisfaction with your status in the life could be too decide that you're a woman in the hopes that within that group you would be further up the pecking order

I am not suggesting that this is a conscious thought out process more that it's an unconscious push

I didn't make it clear that I wanted to learn more about the issues women are facing, especially in regards to the TRA

So, the thread you start is:

What do you need me to do?

@AriadneRose Firstly thank you so much for giving your time to come and talk to us calmly and openly.

I agree that more calm and open channels of communication on this debate are needed. I think that everyone on here has been welcoming and respeectful regardless of their opinions and stances and I hope that is how you are feeling about this too.

For me, the difficulty in understanding Transgender people lies in the 'why'.

I am gender critical, I believe that EVERYONE regardless of sex, sexuality, race etc. should be free to live their lives how they want in the sense of choosing a name and form of address which they prefer, being able to physically appear as they want to (hair/make-up/clothing) being able to sound effeminate or masculine, and be able to work in whatsoever career they should wish.

So if you want to dress/walk/talk/speak in an effeminate manner, go by Miss/Mrs/Ms Tallulah Girly-girl, be referred to as She/her then that is fine.

However, I do not think that makes you a 'woman'. Being a woman is based on female biology. And more to the point if you are free to do all of those things like I said then WHY do you feel the need to appropriate the word 'woman'? How does the word itself change anything.

I do also recognise that there is an aspect of body dismorphia and in those cases I accept that someone may undergo the extensive surgery to 'correct' the body they were born with. Should they have fully undergone this I would accept them being defined as a 'woman' but not as 'female' as the connotations of female to me are deeper biologically and requires XX chromosomes.

Just to add though, I do and would actively and passionately support the right of everyone to live with gender freedom. free from discrimination, violence and prejudice. because Gender to me is just a social construct and thus should be erased and a big happy free for all. Sex on the otherhand is biological.

sorry for rambling.

Or, better still, just read the forum. It's all here.....

Actually I think you are doing a good job Ariadne. I am sceptical of the trans agenda - extremely so. I also don't think you are a woman but I don't think you do either?

And yes, as pp have said - go and talk to men about their problems with gender. Feminists have identified and fought the issue for decades and received nothing but abuse for it. It's men that don't understand, not women.

soup- I agree.

It's the "why" I don't get.

Transgender people are simply reinforcing the whole gender disparity structure that seems to ill serve them.

If you want help with a national campaign for provision of proper third spaces Ariadne (and proper designated, created spaces, not hurriedly re labelled disabled access toilets) you are absolutely in the right place. I'll gladly support that.

If TRA’s would campaign for third spaces there would be no ‘TERF’s.

I can’t speak for all women but you would not be losing the support of old, lefty leaning women like me.

I would support you to stand against the threat of male violence against trans.

I'm with your therapist to be honest. How do you know that what you feel is the condition of being a woman? Why do you label your dysphoria as that? Given no woman on these boards can sufficiently articulate what it "feels like to be a woman" how can you honestly say what you are feeling is the condition of being a cat? an alien? a gender non-conforming man?

I understand why you may be uncomfortable with being a man in a patriarchal society, frankly being a woman is no bed of roses, but why do you feel the need to describe your discomfort as "being a woman"? And do you really think that hormones and surgery will make you feel any better? What if you go through all those drastic changes to your body and wake up one day and realise that you still feel uncomfortable about yourself and it wasn't the state of your body that was at fault after all?

And one last question. Can you understand that saying you "feel like a woman" is perceived as deeply offensive to women who have fought for millennia to be seen as fully human in the first place? We don't feel like women, we feel like humans. To suggest there is a special womanly feeling deprives us of our essential humanity.

Welcome to the thread.
My only issues with transpeople is that it has been so hard to get women to positions of power (we still only have 20% in the UK) that if we started including transwomen in that or in other statistics it could make things a bit skewed. Secondly I don't think self declaration is the way to do in relation to the law anyway - the current law seems to work pretty well.

i don't often think about trans issues as a feminist but have since the 70s read about transpeople - I used to seek out autobiographies in the library as a teenager and think I have a fairly good understanding of things. I just about never use a public loo or anything like that so have no particular issue over that kind of thing that seems to get people a bit cross.

I have sometimes felt transwomen have tried to stop women speaking and that silencing of women is something a lot of of us have experienced all our lives from men but as long as that doesn't happen and we can say what we like (as politely as men say things) then it's all good.

What I never like is censorship. All views should be open to debate. Some people seem to go on too much about things being phobic this that and the other.

They won't accept a third space, read any trans forum. To accept a third space means they can't use our and be validated. Sure there are odd ones who think it's an acceptable solution, the majority don't.

Well done @AriadneRose, thats brave and open of you.

I support trans rights but sadly think whole debate has been polarised to extremes and common sense and facts get lost (Like
Brexit!?) so instead of looking for solutions about men invading women spaces - which they can do without trans gender certificate - people seem to need to take sides instead of working out best way we can live harmoniously.
That said - I hate being called a cis woman. I’m not. I’m a woman. And it’s amazing how that really annoys me!

Here's the crux of the issue, a person's subjective belief about who they are has no place influencing our laws. If the subjective beliefs of individuals had any real place in society women wouldn't need feminism.

I think the worry for a lot of trans people, is the fact that we are a minority, that we will not get a third space
So you're saying that what TIMs really want is a third space?
Dont really want to be included in the category women but want a third category?

Yeah right🤔