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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hello all, man here! am i welcome to talk and learn a bit about stuff ?

622 replies

PleaseCustomizeCharacter · 03/05/2018 16:32

Ive done a little browsing in the feminism section and i admit its intriguing, please forgive my ignorance as i dont know alot about this all.

I just want to start by saying i was raised to respect everyone and i truly do, my view on equality is simply if some one, man or woman is good enough to do the specific job they aspire for then they have every right to get said job/goal, again if this is slight ignorance forgive me, i post this topic because i would like to learn and be less ignorant, love me some knowledge.. :)

So i suppose my question is broad and depends on the individual person's view, but what is the over reaching/ultimate goal of feminism ? or what does it mean to you personally ? and please, dont think im trolling or anything i genuinely want to learn a thing or two, thanks :)

OP posts:
ToeToToe · 04/05/2018 22:44

Oops. Got carried away thinking about second wave feminism Grin

AngryAttackKittens · 04/05/2018 22:44

The only answer this OP needed was "if you would like to know more then keep reading the threads as they come up, and google is also your friend".

Can we stop letting our chips be stolen now?

PleaseCustomizeCharacter · 04/05/2018 22:44

QuackPorridgeBacon its that fascination that led me to post here, i want to improve. my reasons as of right now for not killing myself are pathetic and weird, but in the wholeness, whatever saves a life right lol :p as i say, knowing how i feel i want to make others not feel my way, not even from knowing feminism i just want others to be happy, if points of feminism helps in regards to my actions towards women then i feel its good in respect to making women/others happy and it makes me feel better knowing that others are happy.

OP posts:
SpareRibFem · 04/05/2018 22:55

Well I learnt my lesson today, ignore any posts here where OP is a man as they are time wasters

leggere · 04/05/2018 23:07

Oops! I actually thought bewildered literally meant typing with one hand, I'm so naive.Blush But can't we just give him a chance? (Think I have soft spot for him, I have ds same age with autism)

QuackPorridgeBacon · 04/05/2018 23:08

Sounds fair enough op. But do read and lurk about. As scary as they can sometimes be these threads are very informative. I’ll give you a silly reason I have used (other than my children) not to take my life, missing the end of any shows I’m watching. I’d hate to die not knowing the ending lol that goes for any way to pass, not just suicide but illness etc. My mind always goes to kids, partner then “oh no, I’ll never know what happens in...” it’s quite amusing sometimes and keeps me sane(ish.)

leggere · 04/05/2018 23:09

Can someone please explain why you think he's not genuine?

PleaseCustomizeCharacter · 04/05/2018 23:12

QuackPorridgeBacon indeed, i am lurking and reading, your reasons are almost same as mine, obviously i dont want to hurt my family (no children) but favourite music artists with upcoming albums that i want to listen to, end of shows, upcoming games and so on, it does sound silly, but to me it feels worth hanging about for lol and in the mean time again, just making others not feel how i feel makes it worth it for me. Smile

OP posts:
leggere · 04/05/2018 23:39

I mean, are you just going on past experiences? Spare, angry, lang?

QuackPorridgeBacon · 05/05/2018 00:08

PleaseCustomizeCharacter I like to tell myself that it doesn’t matter how silly a reason as long as it feels good enough not to end things, then it’s a pretty damn good reason. Any reason to hang on for is a good one. Not eloquently put but makes sense to me all the same.

JustABrokenDoll · 05/05/2018 01:14

@leggere - I think it all just whiffed a bit of a favourite MN picture, with the "Hello all, man here" bit.

You know the one.

Hello all, man here! am i welcome to talk and learn a bit about stuff ?
PleaseCustomizeCharacter · 05/05/2018 02:24

QuackPorridgeBacon indeed, i just mean in the grand scheme of other peoples problems, i dont have it bad, good family, no abuse and what not, its the simple fact of certain mental health issues that make it hard, as well as stigma's and stereotypes.

In relation for those that dont suffer and a relevant reference and i dont make light of it, as a man i wont know fully know what abuse women suffer from, as someone without mental health issues you wont know what we deal with.

Its incomparable and almost comparable at the same time but you could say that different subjects face different problems, hence why in genral i just want to make life better for all even though in the grand scheme i will make no difference as one person.

OP posts:
PleaseCustomizeCharacter · 05/05/2018 02:27

I may make a difference to one or two, but compared to activists that have changed the world for the better, i know i will never be on that level, im not charismatic or inspirational enough

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 05/05/2018 03:20

I don't care if he's genuine or not, leggere, I just don't think that it's the job of a feminist forum to play combination mummy and teacher to men. Clearly he has access to the internet so there's nothing to stop him searching and reading without asking women to do the legwork for him.

Specific questions I might take the time to answer, but this? Nah.

JurgenKloppsCat · 05/05/2018 06:43

Please, there is a feminist forum on Reddit. Better still, there is a specific Askthefeminists sub-forum. I think it might help you with what you are looking for. It has a different vibe to this place, as you kids say.

Deathgrip · 05/05/2018 08:14

OP, you’ll find that many women / feminists have spent a lot of time discussing their experiences and realised that we are expected to provide free emotional and physical labour to people in all sorts of circumstances. Being expected to spend their precious (often highly in-demand) time to educate men (and some women) on things they could quite easily research for themselves is just one of those circumstances. Women are tired of it, and learn through repeated experience that it’s rarelu valued or appreciated. The internet is a wonderful resource, you can find out literally anything (although separating the facts from the bullshit requires work).

You’ve skimmed over a wonderful example right here in your posts - the use of the word “pimp” meaning “making something better, cooler etc”. Clearly you and many others have never given it a second thought. The more you start to read up, the more you’ll notice things like and begin to question them, and that’s when you will begin to understand. Why was the word pimp used in this context? Why is a very violent role being conflated with something positive? What message does this send to women about their value in society?

How often do you see men talking over women and women accepting it? Or men regurgitating something a woman has just said and being praised for it? Or men making misogynistic “jokes” and women either ignoring it, or if they say anything they’re told to “lighten up, it’s just a joke”?

The thing you have to realise is that no single comment or action exists in a vacuum. Every small sleight against women adds up to a much larger and oppressive whole. Every set of t shirts where the boy’s shirt says “little explorer” and the girl’s says “beautiful princess”. Every little “harmless joke” about making sandwiches or being promiscuous or wearing certain clothes or being less intelligent or “trapping” men with a baby. Every woman who takes on the entire mental load of her household and whose husband is like another child to look after. Every woman who suffers birth injuries and are told to put up with it. Every woman who has endometriosis which takes on average 9 years to diagnose, with no pain relief and minimal help, while they husbands go in for a GP appointment for a relatively minor injury and come out with strong painkillers and an immediate referral. Every woman who presents at the hospital with severe gynae symptoms and has “psychosomatic” written in their notes without thorough investigation. Every film that doesn’t pass the Bechdel Test (look it up). Every advert that reduces a woman to body parts. Every discussion of having a “bikini body”. Every news article that focuses more on a woman’s appearance than her actions. Every MRA campaign to boycott a movie because it dares to have women playing formerly male roles. Every rape victim who isn’t taken seriously by police. Every rape victim who’s harassed aje abused on social media because her rapist was a respected man. Every rapist who gets a ridiculously light sentence because of their “potential” (eg Brock Turner, look him up). Every man who feigns incompetence so he doesn’t have to change nappies / make up bottles / cook a meal / clean a house. Every time childcare and housework are devalued and seen as an easy life compared to “working”. Every film where the Male romantic lead is at least 20 years older than his female co star. Every time my phone automatically capitalises Male but not female...

There are a million more of these, and many of them much more important, but ive been woken by my twins every 2 hours all night (my husband looks well rested, BTW) so my brain isn’t working as its best right now.

All of these things create a toxic environment in which to live as a woman. Many women don’t really see it until they start to get older, perhaps they become mothers, perhaps they are constantly questioned on why they don’t have children. Their only real “social value” (eg their appearance) no longer conforms to society’s standards of beauty because they’ve dared to age (while older men are “distinguished”) and they find they’re treated with even more disdain than before (I can tell you that as a slim 22 year old I received far more respect than I do as a 35 year old overweight mother).

This is just the start and my main advice would be to open your eyes and think critically. Question the things you’ve accepted until now. When you read news stories, think about them critically - how are things being presented and why. Analyse the media you consume. Speak up when your friends make sexist comments. And FFS, stay away from porn, which IMO is the single biggest factor in the huge increase in vocal misogyny over the last few decades.

Recognise how privileged you are as a man (and as a white man, if indeed that’s what you are). Understand that as a result you have opportunities that others wouldn’t have. Of course having a long term illness may appear to mitigate some of that privilege, but then you simply need to ask yourself whether a woman, person of colour etc would receive the same treatment as you if they had the same condition.

Right, that’s my emotional labour quotient for the day used up - better get back to looking after my kids while my husband has a leisurely shower 🙄

Italiangreyhound · 05/05/2018 09:25

@Deathgrip (interesting name)

An amazing post. Fabulous. A master or should that be mistress class in feminism. Star Star Star Star Star

LangCleg · 05/05/2018 09:53

I mean, are you just going on past experiences? Spare, angry, lang?

It just was screamingly obvious to me - so I suppose, yes, past experience.

SupermatchGame · 05/05/2018 09:56

OP, so gently bringing the topic away from yourself and back to feminism... am interested to know what you thought of this article if you had a chance to read it?
globalnews.ca/news/3292948/redefining-the-f-word-what-does-feminism-look-like-today/

JurgenKloppsCat · 05/05/2018 10:34

Deathgrip, a very interesting and comprehensive post. I hope it helps the OP in his quest.

I was hoping that someone else might ask this question, but why did you have kids with such a selfish twat? After that post, I am totally confused.

SpareRibFem · 05/05/2018 10:39

I'd left the thread and come back after a few hours and yes it was screamingly obvious to me too. And yes past experience.

I like men, I enjoy their company, I will continue to give individual men the benefit of the doubt until they prove they are a problem as many are not. But some are t**rs.

As I said learnt my lesson yesterday, I won't be wasting my time engaging with men who come onto this forum

Deathgrip · 05/05/2018 10:59

Jurgen he’s not so bad really. Sometimes he does more and vice versa depending on who’s the most cripplingly exhausted at any one time. There’s been long spells where he’s done all the night wake ups because I physically can’t get up, but I’m a much lighter sleeper than him so if I’m not completely dead to the world then it’s me who wakes up first.

Things aren’t perfect by any means, but overall I can’t complain. Since the twins were born we’ve basically just been putting out fires whoever gets to them first, only just starting to discuss dividing things up more formally now that they’re (usually) sleeping better. There are times when I come out worse, but there have definitely been times where he’s come out worse.

JurgenKloppsCat · 05/05/2018 11:05

Fair enough. Your initial post, when talking about him, painted him to be the sort of selfish bastard that I would have thought any woman who posts to FWR would avoid like the plague. it played into a lot of stereotypes, so I was confused. Thanks for your honest reply.

Deathgrip · 05/05/2018 11:05

Why thank you Italian - I just call it like I see it!

Italiangreyhound · 05/05/2018 11:14

@JurgenKlopps
"I was hoping that someone else might ask this question, but why did you have kids with such a selfish twat? After that post, I am totally confused"

What a totally weird question! The poster's husband sounds like a normal male for the most part! And I think you know that. Of course men need to become aware and change but he honestly sounds like your average bloke so it's like asking why have a child with an average bloke!

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