Shon Faye hassling mumsnet

[SunsetBeetch]

twitter.com/shonfaye/status/991568961513893888?s=19

I don't think this article by Dr Williams has been posted on this thread. It very clearly sets out the different legal statuses of women, trans women with GRCs and self-identified transwomen. There is no legal requirement to call men without GRCs women. Legally they are men, however much they shout about misgendering.

fairplayforwomen.com/legal-basics/

Now they are after usernames - see screenshot. Utterly Pathetic

So, just for the record:

Transwomen are biologically male - shove that bit of science in any orifice you choose #We'reTeeeellingOnMumsnetSoThere

If there is a link then this may be a good opportunity to make clear why women are concerned.

If there is a link then this may be a good opportunity to make clear why women are concerned.

I agree - this is a fantastic opportunity to get our concerns past the 'block bots' - if our posts are being screen-shotted and shared by people who are not part of the mass-blocking on Twitter - our words will have a much greater reach.

They can out me to whoever they want tbh, I've got nothing to hide. Men are not women, end of story.

Men are not women, end of story.

Quite.

It should be as un-controversial as saying 'up is not down'.

They can out me to whoever they want tbh, I've got nothing to hide. Men are not women, end of story.

Exactly!

Spot the problem with this retweet

Before I was educated by mumsnet, I thought that people who had an issue with being trans were people who thought it was disgusting that men were able to wear make up and dresses. Naturally I was indignant about this, because of course they fucking should. My two year old son can "present" however the hell he wants, good for him. I hope to raise children who have the resources to know that participating in gender is optional not innate.

I had NO IDEA WHATSOEVER that males, with penises, were actually insisting to everyone that they really were women, had always been women and should be given free rein into women's safe spaces. All without any more basis than "I am a woman because I identify as one".

Shon - what IS a woman? Please, without any circular logic, define "woman". There must be identifiable characteristics of being female, surely, otherwise how would you know what you are identifying with?

You can wear lipstick, you can wear dresses, you can call yourself whatever you want, and you should be free to do that without fear of abuse or prejudice.

What you can't do is bully people into fucking LYING and agreeing that you are of the female sex when you are NOT.

I'm convinced that the vast majority of sensible people agree with the above, they just haven't thought about it properly.

inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test/

This situation raised my awareness of how in some situations rights can conflict.

Of course the nurse in question should have the right to work without bullying or unfair treatment. I fully support non-discriminatory employment rights.

The woman having a smear test must of course have the right to request a female for an intimate procedure. It is likely (though I am not assuming anything) that this was especially important to her, perhaps due to previous trauma or religious/cultural reasons.

A woman must be able to have the words to describe her experience in such situations. A patient must be able to voice their feelings about treatments without fear of being judged.

I understand that there was an issue with drawing up the rota. I have some concerns about how this might be avoided in the future.

It concerned me that the nurse did not seem to empathise/ identify with the women/patient's needs.

With regard to gender-bending, men like Grayson Perry, Jenn Smith & Hope Pink are not problematic, in fact, more than that, I find them very likeable.

Even when it is not just about gender-bending self-expression, I don't even care or feel offended by blokes getting off on wearing women's undies or what have you. To each their own.

It is the boundary violation, forced pretending and misogyny (such as trying to 'out-woman-women') that are the problem.

@FostersHomeForImaginaryFriends Yep. Exactly. It's crazy isn't it?

I'm quite fond of men who wear makeup, on account of being a goth and all. Black eyeliner for everyone! Doesn't make you a woman, though.

Shon - what IS a woman? Please, without any circular logic, define "woman"

It would be great if Shon could explain what makes Shon specifically a woman. I know Shon recently supplied a definition which was basically, the definition of woman is a mixture of biological and cultural, and this varies over time. However, that didn't explain why Shon shonself is a woman.

It would be good for Anne Ruzylo's full speech to be available via a link, especially if this means that it is viewed 'on the other side' of the mass blocks.
Despite how it it has been edited and characterised by some TRAs, Anne did not say "trans women are hateful misogynistic bastards"
(you can skip to the end to hear what she actually said)

k

Men cannot become women.
'Woman' is not a feeling.

Everyone deserves respect and opportunities in life, to live how they want so long as it doesn't harm others. Be a transwoman if that's who you are, but don't for a second think you are a 'real woman' because you're not. I'm sorry if that truth hurts your feelings, really I am. But that's reality. I will not stop saying this.

oops....
link here to Anne's full speech

I'm quite fond of men who wear makeup, on account of being a goth and all. Black eyeliner for everyone!

This picture of Kurt Cobain had a massive impact on me as a youngster...

I'm think Kiefer wears that dress rather well

full thread from @RadFemAngryBird in response to activist's attempts to shut down WPUK meeting in Oxford.
(I've taken out the # for easier reading)

twitter.com/i/moments/990001689422979077

"l‘m not condemning the meeting of @WomansPlaceUK but the shameful campaign of bullying and intimidation organised by the students and transactivists outside of the QuakerHouse.
I’ve studied in Oxford, once a capital of freethought and freespeech, known for its fair debates with respect to the opinions of one’s opponents and refreshingly skilful and witty arguments challenging their views.

Bullying, although surfacing occasionally, was never welcome, especially, in the LGBT circles having too many victims of it knowing only too well how much it hurts. But last night the tables have turned - and the bullied became the bullies

I founded TransOxford in 2015 to promote the greater unity and more extensive communications between the separate transgender groups some of which had no idea of the others existing in the same city.

It eventually became a connecting hub between the trans groups in London Brighton, Reading, Swindon, Bristol, Bath.

I was promoting unity and understanding between these groups and the society around them, acceptance and equality and, most importantly, social integration of trans people with the rest of the world.

After all, we all are humans and have more things which unite us than divide us. I stepped down after a while having my doubts about the direction transgender movement was taking and being too busy with my motherhood duties.

Being a woman, i’m a feminist. In the eyes of some radical feminists, I may be a ‘delusional male’ which doesn’t bother me. I look like a woman, live as a woman, accepted by the world at large as a woman, and that’s enough for me, I need no further justification.

My friends include feminists who care for the real cause: women’s safety, health, equal opportunities, empowerment of women and recognition of their achievements.

In today’s Britain where misogyny isn’t a crime but transphobia is, we have too little time to discuss biology and chromosomes. We need to talk about the more important issues. And yes, we all need to talk...

But every time I suggest this to the trans activists, I hear the same arguments in reply: they won’t listen to us, there’s no room for debate, transrights aren’t debatable, they only invite cisgender people...

I believe that ‘cisgender’ and ‘terf’ are as much hurtful and derogatory terms as ‘trannies’. Let’s avoid that language!

I think @WomansPlaceUK do invite everyone as long as they have something to contribute to the debate. I know a number of transsexuals who attended and spoke at their events (and were immediately branded as apostates by the transcommunity).

‘No debate’ is the only option? What are you going to do with so many women and transsexuals who support @WomansplaceUK ? Eliminate them? Charge them with hatecrime after your lobbyists push through another piece of legislation?
Inviting anyone for an open debate is not a hatecrime. @WomansPlaceUK has only five things on their agenda they want to discuss. Only five. Is that too much?

They want an open debate on how the new transrights might affect womensrights - what’s wrong with that? It is obvious that their rights will be affected in some way - so why not discuss their concerns in a civilised and evidence based way?

Women only spaces, women only services, gender statistics - all these things matter to a lot of women, men and transgender folks - and need to be discussed.
I think the best way for transwomen to stop transphobia is to start acting like women, looking like women (which would resolve issues of misgendering and access to the women’s #toilets), stop forcing their way into womanhood, wait until you’re accepted & welcomed.

...and if you dislike social expectations of you as a woman (dressing/looking/acting as society expects a woman) - join the #feminist ongoing battle against the patriarchy! Women have a lot in common, so if transwomen are women - they should be able to relate!

There’s so much we could do together.
I’m against transphobia.
I’m against misogyny.
I’m against bullying.
I’m against childish tantrums.
I’m against #patriarchy.

I’m for the gender equality.
I’m for the humankind unity.
I’m for #reedom of speech.
I’m for a dialogue, debate, creativity, wit and peace.
I love you all x

Kurt was lovely. Kind of disconcerting to see his daughter now, she looks so much like him.

Late to the party but

We like mackerel in this house. Neither caked nor fingered.

Trust Langcleg to lower the tone (or am I letting my formative years of Viz reading show?)

Lunchtime

SF's definition of a woman relies on gender stereotypes. Any reference to non-biological factors always comes down to social factors. There is no way whatsoever to define a woman as anything other than a biological female, without defining women based on stereotypes, it is impossible.

They try to obscure this by using language meant to muddy the issue, but there is nothing at all that can be said that alters the fact that they are reducing women to stereotypes. Their assertion of 'lady brain', i.e. the notion that the brain is gendered, again is reducing women to gender stereotypes as it's saying that most females have a brain that accounts for our social role & place in society, and some males have it too and should be treated the same as women even though society treats us entirely differently based on our different reproductive capacities

And there is no such thing as brain sex let alone brain gender. Scientists have been clear that there are not distinct enough differences between the brains of males and females for there to be a male and female brain, basically the overlap of any qualities generally male or female are too prevalent for their to be such a distinction.

And sex is not gender, so even if we had distinct brains, we know this doesn't constitute gender because we already know, as women, that we are not hardwired to be subordinate to men, and anyone who has taken the time to try to understand patriarchy understands that gender has always been a social system meant to uphold male supremacy; roles and norms have changed over time and place, but the only constant has been that their purpose is the subjugation of women, with the few exceptions only proving the rule: gender is socialisation, not innate, and we don't need a science degree to know this, we just need to know what we are as women and what is the tool of our oppression.