Trans Park Run Deletion

[TheUterati]

Poorly played, MN, very poorly played.

The perspective that when male athletes identify as female athletes and on the basis of that are eligible to compete against women, they are cheating is an absolutely valid one that is deserving of discussion.

Points in its favour are:

1. The context of cheating in sports as a whole - those self-harming activities that athletes willingly participate in to give themselves a competitive edge.
2. The evidence that mediocre male athletes who identify as female manage to then carve out glittering careers where those would not be available to them had they continued to compete as males.

It is an absolutely valid perspective.

Accusations of cheating against specific individuals may well be against talk guidelines, in the absence of supporting evidence, but those individual posts can be deleted and a friendly warning from MNHQ posted on the thread.

Males identifying as females and competing in female sports is a key issue in GRA, whether it occurs at the 'social, fun' end of things or at at Olympic level. To silence this debate is an appallingly heavy-handed.

And now a totally harmless, fun thread in which everyone was taking the piss out of a ridiculous bloke attempting to mansplain how women are Doing Dating Wrong has been deleted too. Does someone over at HQ have their finer superglued to the delete thread button?!

Finger!

angry

But was he deleted for being a goady mo'fo

It was fun though!

(pouts)

OK never mind, back to your regularly scheduled why can't we talk about male people competing in women's sports being a problem discussion.

Well i missed the whole thing angry

Imagine my disappointment!!

I suppose a similar situation could be in secondary schools where teams etc are separated by sex but not always playing competitively.

NOT THE SAME THING! In that situation, there is a finite number of places available, so including a boy who identified as a girl would be denying a girl a place. In Parkrun, the more the merrier! So no woman is losing a place by the inclusion of transwomen.

Lesson learned - women are much funnier than men. But we already knew that.

On the OP, I still don't understand why that thread was deleted. No individuals were named, so technically it was doing exactly what HQ has been telling us to do (discuss the issue, not the person).

NOT THE SAME THING! In that situation, there is a finite number of places available, so including a boy who identified as a girl would be denying a girl a place. In Parkrun, the more the merrier! So no woman is losing a place by the inclusion of transwomen.

Exactly, I really think some don't actually know what parkrun is! Or if they do, the actual point of it has completely whoooooshed over their heads.

Many people, if in a postition where they are unlikely to make any headway, will say fuck it.

This is the reason that sport was sex separated in the first place, surely? As if men and women compete against each other, women will always fail, always lose. Well, pretty much always.

Women already come second place in society behind men in many areas - much of society was set up for "default male" - apart from a few discrete areas eg post natal groups and similar. We are already set up to fail in so many areas of life. Must sport really be added? Or is this about redressing the "balance" - putting these uppity women back in their place. We repeatedly see from MRAs that if women want equality then we should but equal in sports to and HA gotcha. This is it, isn't it? This is what MRAs want.

To be honest, ReluctantCamper, I'm not really inclined to explore whataboutism if you're going to ignore my entire comment and focus on a single closing line.

In this specific instance, there's a trade-off to be made between the damage caused by being excusionary to a vulnerable group and... nothing. There is literally no repurcussion to allowing trans people to compete in Parkrun.

Perhaps there's a case to be made at higher levels of sport, but that should be done sensitively, and proportionately to the severity of the problem.

The op of the trans thread didn’t know if the person who crossed the line in front of her was trans or not.

She was pretty positive they were trans

Parkrun isnt competitive

No but people are...the OP certainly was

Or if they do, the actual point of it has completely whoooooshed over their heads.

I think you and the point are very ill acquainted, personally. Also, you don't really seem to understand what transitioning means.

It is the same thing. In secondary school every one has to play sports. There is space for all. Girls are very likely to become disengaged if their achievements are compared to those of people who will always be stronger and faster than them.

Girls are very likely to become disengaged if their achievements are compared to those of people who will always be stronger and faster than them

Yep

A place was taken away from a woman.

4th place was taken away.

If the principle is that self ID is fine and if someone IDs as a woman / girl then they are one, then that will be the case across schools etc. Obviously.

In the USA this is a big issue for girls / women, as sports scolarships are a way for people who don't have much money to get to study at university (very expensive over there).

In the UK, I think it will simply make even more girls opt out. How many girls will want to carry on with people who ID as girls in communal changing and then thrashing them at the sport?

I mean it's admirable to battle against the odds but there comes a point where it's perfectly reasonable to just fuck it off.

Girls are very likely to become disengaged if their achievements are compared to those of people who will always be stronger and faster than them

And that would be a yes from me too. This is the trade off richmarr.

No action is without consequences

No but people are...the OP certainly was

So the people wanting to compete, there's plenty of runs out there that do.
Why should parkrun completely change what it's about to appease a few?
As a pp said, the more the merrier. It's not taking places away from anyone.
It's only in the table when you get home via rankings 1 - 200 or however many people you are running against that you see a column next to a name. M or F. There are no categories.
The column with m and f could be taken out to take care of this. Just name.
Or are you suggesting that they should mark themselves out in some way? Put a T against them or something? That's kind of the very definition of excluding or othering if they've transitioned.
In a competitive setting, absolutely they have an advantage - unfair.
Parkrun though is the more the merrier, everyone just runs/walks whatever.

Sorry, didn't realise I was quoting myself, thought that was from Sardine

I think you and the point are very ill acquainted, personally. Also, you don't really seem to understand what transitioning means.

Seeing as the thread got pulled minutes after your comment on the other thread, it's not surprising you don't really understand.
I understand a lot more than you seem to do.

And of course it will be illegal for women to set up their own stuff to do either fun or competition.

if women set up a park run just for women, this would be illegal wouldn't it.

We know that MRAs have been on at race for life for years for sexism, now they can join.

Interstingly, I have never heard women getting the arsehole over eg movember.

reluctant

Thats funny...it was a very good point though

Worth repeating

I am just catching up on things, and was disappointed to see the thread got zapped. Some pp have commented that it wasn't a race it was only a fun run type comments.

But as the author of (both!) threads about the Boston Marathon being affected in exactly the same way, I'd argue that they are both the same concept, just on different scales. We all know the vast majority of people enter Boston just to finish, with no plan or hope of winning it, yet it is a race. Does that make it ok to be annoyed at the same happening?

@TheUterati posted with a similar disappointment to me which is essentially that women's records in sporting events are at risk of being taken from us by males; and the organisers (and the men running under the female flag, naturally!) see nothing wrong with this. We disagree and want to talk about it, given we're the same sex of the ones affected.

Cady - you ask ‘why should Parkrun change?’

Then suggest a change!

Make your mind up!!!

if women set up a park run just for women, this would be illegal wouldn't it.

No it wouldn't. People are still free to set up their own parkrun with their own rules and ethos,that's not illegal.