Everyone should see this IMPORTANT

[MsMcWoodle]

Have a look. What country are we in:
www.facebook.com/julie.bindel/videos/pcb.10160135970780316/10160135907955316/?type=3&theater

Interesting from the point of view of MRA/TRA cross-over that one of these thugs says he has taken 'the red pill'.

I forgot about cultural appropriation

Life does seem rather complicated these days

Typer in fairness he may mean the Matrix red pill rather than the MRA version, but I agree it's a bit apt.

That's where the MRAs got it from: they choose the red pill and then the matrix of female supremacy is revealed to them.

we also have to accept that there are trans individuals who are afraid and that they genuinely feel under threat.

The trans identified males of Sisters Uncut explained this morning that that is why they never go to these terrorist actions themselves and always send their minions instead. Being exposed to police and women saying no to them endangers their mental health.
I confess to being a bit shocked that they do not even carry their own water, but I guess that is what they think women are for.

I'm genuinely afraid of spiders. That doesn't mean that every spider that I see is actually full of venom and just waiting to kill me with it (I don't live in Australia), even though it may feel that way to me at the time.

There has to be some kind of reasonable person standard applied when one group of people is claiming to be scared of the other. There is no evidence that gender critical women are a danger to anything other than a trans person's feelings.

I'm very sure I recognise one of those people on the stairs. A trans female who trains in a martial art and competes as a female.

"when one group of people is claiming to be scared of the other"

The fact that this site even hosts that particular debate will never cease to rightfully upset some. For it to take place at all, it has to tolerate non-natal-females gaining entry to a female space ie Mumsnet/Feminism. Even if only 1/1000 women feel that this is intolerable, then it is intolerable. Her rights are stepped on in favour of Trans rights. Trans. is not itself a Feminist problem.

But seeing as I'm here now anyway, has anyone suggested some sort of "code-of-conduct" for non-females to adhere to when navigating around? It may clarify an uneasy relationship without feeling like a compromise.

If there's one golden rule I'd suggest to anyone not female commenting on a female majority site it would be to never, ever claim to be More Objective on account of Male. That tends to register as a "there is a wasp trying to fly up my nose" level of irritating.

I think if I ever did work up the chutzpah enough to start a thread on a feminist website, this would possibly be it. May also suggest a word-limit though.

@MadBadDaddy Threads have a 1000 post limit on here.

Isn't that one of those 'good problems'?

Dad
Sorry too buzy reading what other women have to say to write you a code of conduct. Maybe take some responsibility as an adult for figuring out for yourself what is moral behavior?

But seeing as I'm here now anyway, has anyone suggested some sort of "code-of-conduct" for non-females to adhere to when navigating around? It may clarify an uneasy relationship without feeling like a compromise.

Develop a thick skin. That actually applies to anyone posting on FWR but more so for anyone male. It's impossible to discuss feminism and sex based oppression without being incredibly blunt at times. Anyone NAMALTing all over a thread is seen as a derail.

There has to be some kind of reasonable person standard applied when one group of people is claiming to be scared of the other.

Yes. Imagine someone believes the Jews are conspiring against society and causing harm. And therefore believes they are entitled to "retaliate" by harming Jews. At what point do we say "carry on if that's what you believe" rather than strongly opposing/calling the police?

If all else fails you could read the talk guidelines provided for you by MN.

bewild
"The trans identified males of Sisters Uncut explained this morning that that is why they never go to these terrorist actions themselves and always send their minions instead. Being exposed to police and women saying no to them endangers their mental health.
I confess to being a bit shocked that they do not even carry their own water, but I guess that is what they think women are for."

Where is this from? I am blinking madly

This has really incentivised me to get to a WPUK meeting. I'm disabled so it's not an easy task but it's so important. I will have to wait until there is one closer to me.
I will not be intimidated by a bunch of men in masks. I'll wear a go-pro to record getting in. People need to know that it is NOT the women attending these events who are being violent or aggressive. We are not trying to eradicate transpeople. Trans women are trying to eradicate female only spaces.

It was explained on the FB page. They have minions to keep them safe from women with opinions.
This is not the first time transgender males took over an organization to use it to the opposite purpose from the one it was created to serve. It is kinda who they are and what they do.

I've had to step away from Twitter and MN recently to an extent as peaking constantly is mentally exhausting.

The footage is...embarrassing for them. I cringed all the way through it.

Did JB get in eventually?
I was expecting some nonsense in Cardiff the week before last but it was quiet thankfully.

I'm really hoping that WPUK can step up a gear. We need bigger meetings and louder voices. So so sick of this shit.

hipsterfun, no platforming was definitely a thing when I was a student in the early 80s. We were mainly no platforming the National Front and the racist Monday Club (chaired by John Bercow, who has had quite the Damascene conversion since then).

As an oldie, I'm very interested in how young activists understand recent history. I've read so many TRAs talking about how the lesbian and gay rights movement was carried by trans activists, which is complete nonsense. I knew and liked a lot of trans people as they often shared social space with us, but most thought of L&G rights and trans rights as being two separate struggles. What does get erased is how important lesbians were to both feminism and gay rights.

A quick Julie Bindel anecdote: back in the 80s, when she and I were both baby lesbians living up north, I knew her vaguely (she was v cute with long curly hair). At some feminist conference, a couple of women tried to beat up my girlfriend for some heinous act of political non-correctness, and when we came back next day they said if we came in they'd batter us. The organisers refused to help in any way. The only person who took a stand was Julie, who came and sat with us on the stairs outside and was very friendly.

I don't always agree with her by any means, but IME she has a good heart and is also funny and brave.

The YouTube video has been deleted

Good to know this retribution for non-PCness has such a long history Nice Bindel anecdote though!

I’d guess I’m 10-15 years behind you, Ketzele. The activism of the 90s seems like it was a bit more fun, maybe because your generation had made decent headway with social issues and we didn’t have Maggie looming over us

@OvaHere NATALT is why I signed up here, and you're free to think whatever you like about that. I take your point about derailing and I'll keep that in mind and keep it brief. But whenever my lot upsets your lot, I can't be totally silent: That's not me hurting women and then telling the world it's for my benefit. Their violence is inexcusable. I don't know where else to say this without getting silenced. I didn't come here to win or negotiate anything. Thick skin deployed.

The thought that i might also be part of some screengrab on Twitter, and am now quite possibly a suspected transphobe, makes me feel more like sticking around, not less.