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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Emma Healy ex-Mumsnet employee address's transphobia on feminist boards.

272 replies

crispbuttyfan · 18/04/2018 18:37

What do we think of this?

"Firstly, labelling what goes on on MN as 'discussion' completely misrepresents what is going on. Whilst, yes, I wouldn't argue that there isn't ~some~ 'civil' discussion, the vast majority descends into scaremongering and hate speech."

"There were many staff members, me included, who raised concerns about what was being said on site - but it was never taken on board. Any criticism has been dismissed as a smear attempt by 'trans activists' rather than actually thinking about what was being said"

Post edited by MNHQ

OP posts:
FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 18/04/2018 19:33

'transphobia' nobody is scared of trans people, they just dont like the activist ones who think that punching old women is a normal response in a debate.

SusanBunch · 18/04/2018 19:33

Not a fair comparison, that. Trans ideology actually harms transsexuals who are often smeared as 'truscum'. What do you think of the word 'truscum'?

It is a fair comparison because people are making negative generalisations about a group of people and those people perceive the language as unpleasant.

I of course dislike the word truscum.
My point is that you as non-trans do not get to dictate what is and what is not transphobic because you do not experience it. TRAs and men do not get to dictate what is and what is not misogynistic because they do not experience it. You can't have one rule for transphobia and another for racism/misogyny etc.

It is possible to debate this without descending into some of the generalisations and comments on that blog. Most comments on here are not transphobic. There are however some and the view of the people making them is not the central one, just as for other types of prejudice you look at the viewpoint of the person affected.

BuggerBugger · 18/04/2018 19:33

Oh well.

At least Lily Madigan is getting a rest from being MN's villain-in-chief tonight.

SusanBunch · 18/04/2018 19:35

It is very worrying about the IP address issue. Has anyone raised this on Twitter with her? She is either very stupid or has purposely left the information on there. It's not fair to expose people- calling out transphobia is one thing but there are instances where people have killed themselves for being doxxed, or been subjected to violence.

catgirl1976 · 18/04/2018 19:37

My point is that you as non-trans do not get to dictate what is and what is not transphobic because you do not experience it. TRAs and men do not get to dictate what is and what is not misogynistic because they do not experience it. You can't have one rule for transphobia and another for racism/misogyny etc.

Yeah. And non-women don't get to dictate what 'woman' is. Oh...hang on...

It is a fair comparison because people are making negative generalisations about a group of people and those people perceive the language as unpleasant.

Oh you mean like the term TERF?

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 18/04/2018 19:38

Crispbuttyfan which is your favourite kind of crisp butty? I like a cheese and onion on white bread.

Also do you consider misogyny an issue that should be addressed or hushed?

BrashCandicoot · 18/04/2018 19:39

TRAs and men do not get to dictate what is and what is not misogynistic because they do not experience it.

And they're famous for sticking to that, aren't they.

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 18/04/2018 19:39

It is very worrying about the IP address issue. Has anyone raised this on Twitter with her? She is either very stupid or has purposely left the information on there.

She has now made her twitter private and is being advised to say she was whistleblowing (it is nothing of the sort) and also now claiming MNers are doxing her using information she has published for public consumption.

SusanBunch · 18/04/2018 19:40

Yeah. And non-women don't get to dictate what 'woman' is. Oh...hang on...

Yes, precisely. The rule runs both ways. TRAs cannot tell women what they do and do not find misogynistic either. That is my point. It has to go both ways- otherwise that would set a dangerous precedent.

I agree re TERF. It's a slur and it's misogynistic. Back to my point- it's not for TRAs to say what is and is not misogynistic and it's not for them to say that the GRA changes and EA changes do not have an adverse impact on women.

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 18/04/2018 19:41

I’ll be talking about this on the original thread going forward because I believe this is a deliberate derail an attempt to discredit legitimate concerns from MN users.

Greymisty · 18/04/2018 19:41

Why won't crisp answer Lamb's very good question?

Almost like crisp just came here to rant and race and label. However what would I know.

SusanBunch · 18/04/2018 19:42

FFS re whistleblowing. I did look up the IP address on there and thankfully it only gave a country and a city and no other identifying info, and the person is not in the UK so hopefully won't be in any danger as a result.

AngryAttackKittens · 18/04/2018 19:42

I'm pretty sure that anyone who's been employed to do moderation (ie actually paid for it) knows very well what can be done with leaked IP addresses, so let's not let this person off the hook on the grounds of being stupid. This was a deliberate act of malice.

Original poster
crispbuttyfan · 18/04/2018 19:44

circlesquare thats pretty basic to be honest, I'm more a kind of chicken slices and maybe bacon crisp on a malt-rye kinda girl.

I hate misogyny and trans misogyny , though I am sure our definitions may vary as much as our taste in crisp!

OP posts:
catgirl1976 · 18/04/2018 19:47

It is not whistleblowing. It does not meet the criteria for a qualifying disclosure which are:

criminal offence
breach of legal obligation
miscarriage of justice
danger to the h&s of any individual
Dmge to environment
Deliberate attempt to conceal any of the above.

Good luck @emma_healy with that defense.

AngryAttackKittens · 18/04/2018 19:47

Agreed Circle, let's not give this particular attempt to distract any further oxygen.

RealityHasALiberalBias · 18/04/2018 19:48

Susan what about the trans people on MN who say it’s not transphobic?

You’re talking as if every single trans person agrees that MN has a transphobia problem, which is clearly not the case. There is a huge range of opinion on gender ideology within the trans and LGB communities, it’s not just TRAs vs radfems. Those are just the loudest two groups!

In any case, this is a matter of free speech. No-one has a right not to be offended. I read stuff on here (on all parts of the site) that I find offensive every day. People say stuff at work that I find offensive all the time, but I’m not going about reporting everything, because free speech is more important than my personal views.

SuburbanRhonda · 18/04/2018 19:51

I did look up the IP address on there and thankfully it only gave a country and a city and no other identifying info, and the person is not in the UK so hopefully won't be in any danger as a result.

So if you know what information an IP address can reveal, why did you ask as if you didn’t know?

LangCleg · 18/04/2018 19:51

Crisp - I'll ask again - do you think a satirical pro-TRA commenter should be doxxed, doorstepped or have their job threatened by activists reacting to Emma's breach of data laws and inability to recognise satire when she sees it? And if you don't, why not?

Mumsnut · 18/04/2018 19:52

I'm not really up for trusting Emma's judgment on anything, Crisp

(And however 'uncomfortable' she found iMumsnet as a workplace, it didn't stop her finishing her 6 month internship, did it? I could have found some respect for her maybe if she'd resigned and published an article )

SusanBunch · 18/04/2018 19:53

So if you know what information an IP address can reveal, why did you ask as if you didn’t know?

Errr, because I didn't as of 10 minutes ago. Then when I was told, I googled 'look up IP' address and found a website where you could type it in....
Perhaps I should have googled straightaway in hindsight.

AngryAttackKittens · 18/04/2018 19:55

The only other thing I have to say about this is that I hope MNHQ will pursue legal action against Emma for breaching data protection guidelines. Saving screenshots from a former job and then publishing them later? Hire a lawyer and throw the book at her.

NotTerfNorCis · 18/04/2018 19:56

It is a fair comparison because people are making negative generalisations about a group of people and those people perceive the language as unpleasant.

It's more criticism of an ideology than of a group of people. If I were to criticise Scientology, is that hateful towards Scientologists? I'm sure they would say so, and try to get me silenced, but that doesn't make criticism of Scientology inherently bigotted.

My point is that you as non-trans do not get to dictate what is and what is not transphobic because you do not experience it.

This is only true to a point. The opinion that transwomen are transwomen is no doubt offensive to some, but that doesn't mean it is objectively 'phobic'. I might as well say that as a woman, I'm offended that some men say they are women and then act out their 'womanhood' through make-up, feminine clothes and sexual posturing. We could be mutually offended and shut the debate down that way. But that's not the point of a democracy.

OvaHere · 18/04/2018 19:56

I hate misogyny and trans misogyny

trans misogyny = transwomen are not the same as women

misogyny = transwomen are no different to women

The two things are a circle that cannot be squared.

NotTG · 18/04/2018 19:56

Non-transsexuals get to tell Transsexuals that their ID is outdated or offensive all the time. TRAs are overrun with transphobics. TGs should clean house first.