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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Emma Healy ex-Mumsnet employee address's transphobia on feminist boards.

272 replies

crispbuttyfan · 18/04/2018 18:37

What do we think of this?

"Firstly, labelling what goes on on MN as 'discussion' completely misrepresents what is going on. Whilst, yes, I wouldn't argue that there isn't ~some~ 'civil' discussion, the vast majority descends into scaremongering and hate speech."

"There were many staff members, me included, who raised concerns about what was being said on site - but it was never taken on board. Any criticism has been dismissed as a smear attempt by 'trans activists' rather than actually thinking about what was being said"

Post edited by MNHQ

OP posts:
FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 18/04/2018 19:09

that's it isn't it?
TRA person comes onto Mumsnet, doesnt like the (considered ) opinions of women, and starts going 'transphobia transphobia, quick shut them down'.

HairyBallTheorem · 18/04/2018 19:11

Crisp if I did in my workplace what Emma has just done (albeit she is now no longer working for MN) I'd be escorted off the premises before my feet could even touch the ground.

Releasing those screenshots with the IP address and bar at the top showing that it's a moderator's view of the MN system (including a button which looks like it may take you through to user details such as their email address) is basically a threat of the "can't wait to get my hands on all the pretty little contact data" variety (except that she already has).

But no, you want to divert this into a discussion about content (despite the fact that one of the screen grabs was an attempt at satire by someone who is pro self ID).

BTW, you're relatively new to this forum, but are you aware that the last time we had a major data breach, Justine's own home address got "swatted"?

NotTerfNorCis · 18/04/2018 19:13

Rejecting trans ideology is not 'transphobic'. Quite a few transsexuals reject it too.

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 18/04/2018 19:13

Yawn

Flomper · 18/04/2018 19:13

I really dont think you should reference her by name now that legal action is probably being prepared.

SophoclesTheFox · 18/04/2018 19:14

No, I don't think the content was in any way transphobic.

HTH.

(did you read lang's post? Did you understand it?)

RatRolyPoly · 18/04/2018 19:14

Nothing about this surprises me, except that someone would publicly post a screen shot with someone's IP address in - duh!

Meanwhile the vast majority of people in the country do not consider the comments to be transphobic.

The vast majority of people in the country, 'ey? That's quite the claim.

What are you basing it on? Might be helpful to know which "comments" you're basing it on too; are you saying all comments on Mumsnet? Seems even mumsnet thinks some comments on mumsnet are transphobic, what with deleting them and all.

SusanBunch · 18/04/2018 19:14

OTOH, she says she felt uncomfortable and ultimately, unable to work in this atmosphere, and we have to acknowledge that.

Yes, this is a very important point. All sort of prejudice, including misogyny and racism has to be viewed from the point of view of the person targeted and experiencing it. To keep saying there is no transphobia on here is ignoring the fact that trans people and others do find many posts transphobic, even if the majority are not. The ones listed, I can definitely see how a trans person would feel very uncomfortable when reading them.

At the same time, TRAs have to take women's word for how they feel about the GRA changes. It runs both ways. TRAs do not define what feels misogynistic and women do not define what feels transphobic.

I am all for keeping debate neutral, polite and sensible.

RatRolyPoly · 18/04/2018 19:16

I think that was a very sensible comment Susan

Original poster
crispbuttyfan · 18/04/2018 19:17

so no-one at all on the site with a reputation for transphobia thinks the site has a transphobia problem?

Despite the fact trans people would have the best perspective on this?

Is it because you all think trans people are inherently deceitful and abusive? Would that be it?

If the site indeed has no transphobia, for that to be true you would need to hold the transphobic belief that all trans people are just vindictive and dislike mumsnet randomly.... at the very least....

Doesn't really stand up if you ask me.

OP posts:
Original poster
crispbuttyfan · 18/04/2018 19:19

well said susanbunch, our posts crossed.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/04/2018 19:19

Transpeople have previously said that they don't find the site transphobic Confused Or were they the wrong sort of transpeople Hmm

NotTerfNorCis · 18/04/2018 19:22

Despite the fact trans people would have the best perspective on this?

But there are quite a few transwomen who post here and say they don't find the board transphobic.

TRAs believe biology is irrelevant and gender is a personal choice. Disagreeing with that is not hateful. It's actually what most people think. Try asking a random selection of people if a female can be born with a penis. I'm sure the answer would be almost 100% 'no'.

Winewinewinegin · 18/04/2018 19:22

Mumsnet have deleted some comments for not meeting talk guidelines, as do most if not all online forums. This is neither news nor evidence of hate speech or phobias.

SusanBunch · 18/04/2018 19:22

Transpeople have previously said that they don't find the site transphobic

A few of them have, yes. But they don't claim to speak for all trans people. Is it fine for me to say 'I am not racist because my black friend Dave thinks all my jokes are funny and he isn't offended at all'?

Think about what the posts are saying for a minute:
'just another example of someone pretending to be trans'
'the shooter was a man' (no evidence)
'transwomen are women until they want special treatment'
'misogynistic culturally inept men'

I mean argue until you are blue in the face that nobody should be offended by this, but I don't know....

LangCleg · 18/04/2018 19:23

crispbuttyfan - I'll ask you again. What do you think about satirical comments by pro-trans MNers being quoted - along with identifying information - as examples of transphobia?

FloraFox · 18/04/2018 19:23

Is it because you all think trans people are inherently deceitful and abusive? Would that be it?

No, it would be because some TRAs cannot tolerate anything other than complete capitulation to their ideology, an ideology that does not withstand the slightest bit of critical analysis.

BarrackerBarmer · 18/04/2018 19:24

I actually think this is now a derail by you crispbuttyfan

A data breach has been committed by a disgruntled ex MN employee.
My concern is for the people affected by the breach.
Not for whether the people salivating over the data of exposed posters can find enough justification for their next attack on women with opinions.

I won't be commenting upon or drawing any more attention to the posts with the exposed information upon them in particular because those posts are circulating the internet right now with that sensitive info attached.

So no. Seriously, for once, focus on the actual issue. Stop making the situation worse for the exposed posters - one of whom is pro trans and got exposed anyway.

catgirl1976 · 18/04/2018 19:25

Section 55(1) DPA unlawful obtaining etc of personal data.

It is an offence to knowingly or recklessly obtain, disclose or procure the disclosure of personal information without the consent of the data controller.

This offence can of course be committed in many different ways, such as “hacking” or “blagging”. An employee of a data controller can access an information database and obtain an individuals name, address and telephone number, for example. There have been cases in which an employee has obtained such information and disclosed it to a third party for their own purposes.

AngryAttackKittens · 18/04/2018 19:25

Takes a special kind of person to be wrong about every single thing they comment on, crispbutty. Exposing personal information such as IPs is generally agreed to be bad form even by people who don't agree on much else.

SusanBunch · 18/04/2018 19:27

You are right- it is extremely worrying that she has exposed details. How much information can be gained from an IP address? Does it expose name, location etc?

NotTerfNorCis · 18/04/2018 19:28

But they don't claim to speak for all trans people. Is it fine for me to say 'I am not racist because my black friend Dave thinks all my jokes are funny

Not a fair comparison, that. Trans ideology actually harms transsexuals who are often smeared as 'truscum'. What do you think of the word 'truscum'?

Original poster
crispbuttyfan · 18/04/2018 19:28

haha, Barrack your great!

An article about transphobia, an issue that Justine went to the press to talk about and do damage limitation, and you want to talk about IP address's, and I'm derailing?

OP posts:
Winewinewinegin · 18/04/2018 19:31

No, it would be because some TRAs cannot tolerate anything other than complete capitulation to their ideology, an ideology that does not withstand the slightest bit of critical analysis.

Yes. And then calls anyone who disagrees with that transphobic. And says only they get to define what that means.

Not really a compatible definition with free speech for those who have different beliefs or any questions, is it?

AngryAttackKittens · 18/04/2018 19:31

In the right hands it's enough to allow a person with a grudge to show up on someone's doorstep if sufficiently motivated, Susan. Justine's house was swatted last time this happened (and I believe it was her nanny who had to deal with it, which surely even people who think Justine presides over a nest of vipers can agree was really not on).