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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A Woman's Place is Speaking up in Wales (Cardiff Meeting next week)

321 replies

PlonitbatPlonit · 06/04/2018 11:11

Just wanted to see who is going to this, and let Mumsnetters know it is happening if you didn't already. It's going to be a great meeting I think - with a choir singing too!

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-speaking-up-in-wales-tickets-43752975327

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crispbuttyfan · 14/04/2018 10:31

Sirvix

nice projection except I have a teenage daughter and an almost teenage daughter, and I would have zero problem with them sharing facilities with trans girls, like many other parents, so....

AnitaLovesVictor · 14/04/2018 10:33

CisMyArse, it's here:

twitter.com/Wales4Equality/status/984792111311618048

MsBeaujangles · 14/04/2018 10:36

crisp I presume you'd d away with all sex-based provision then? There is no point in sexed based provision that doesn't categorise by sex.
I can't see any point of gender-based provision when it comes to dressing, undressing, sleeping etc. In what way does identity matter in these circumstances?

AnitaLovesVictor · 14/04/2018 10:39

Crispbuttyfan - so the teenage girls who are uncomfortable with changing in front of a transitioning transgirl are trumped by those whose parents have "zero problem" ?

Right. Gotcha.

An awful lot of teenage girls are uncomfortable changing in front of anyone - I know I was. Their feelings are valid, and should be respected. We should not expect young girls to have their own instinctive boundaries eroded like this, because some parents have "zero problem".

flowersonthepiano · 14/04/2018 10:40

Quite MsBeaujangles

Morning crisp. Do you agree that humans are sexually dimorphic?

CisMyArse · 14/04/2018 11:15

This is awful. As you say, why not come along and engage in debate? I'm really concerned for the people involved. Why aren't they understanding the WPUK's very clear demands? I suspect the word 'demands' riles abs irritates a few people - how dare women be resolute in what we want.

SirVixofVixHall · 14/04/2018 11:34

I don’t know a single parent who would be comfortable with their daughters sharing changing or sleeping facilities with males.
I also have several friends who experienced sexual abuse as children and older teenagers.
Aside from that, most teenage girls naturally want privacy to change. I grew up with a brother I got on with really well ,but both of us wanted privacy once we were going through puberty. Not letting girls and boys too. have their natural boundaries, is rape culture.

SirVixofVixHall · 14/04/2018 11:50

That is a predictably childish response from the Wales equality people. Why don’t they actually come to a meeting and see for themselves I wonder ? Perhaps because they don’t want to accept that people have reasonable concerns that aren’t based in bigotry ? Far easier to shout hate and bigotry and frighten people into not listening to debate. This won’t be effective in the long run though, we need to have this conversation to establish legislation that works for girls and women, 52 percent of the population. Like every feminist I’ve ever met I want trans identifying people , like anyone else, to live happy lives free from harassment. What I don’t want is for females to lose their sex based protections. Sex matters. From safety to data collection to health care, sex matters. To try and gaslight a whole nation into believing that sex is a construct and identity is all, is never going to work. I’ve lived my entire life without having an “identity” . The world is in a perilous state, we should be trying to look outwards and sort of the problems of poverty, war, the environment, not selfishly focusing on the nonsense that is “identity “. I don’t identify as a woman, I am a woman.

AnitaLovesVictor · 14/04/2018 11:52

Yep CisMyArse. They're actually going to start bullying a Primary School now. Talk of "lawsuits" to make "focus their attention" even a call for for the school to be shut down.

BarrackerBarmer · 14/04/2018 11:53

Do your daughters feel the same way about handling their menstrual needs in the presence of boys, crispbuttyfan or have you adequately explained to them that they aren't allowed personal boundaries once those boys feel they are girls?

SirVixofVixHall · 14/04/2018 11:57

Any male who refuses to understand or accept that girls need boundaries is not a trustworthy person.

Berthatydfil · 14/04/2018 16:10

There’s a worrying amount of hate trying to be whipped up around the school that’s supposed to have been used as a venue.

There’s also lies being spread about slides being shown to mock people.
I don’t think the venue had any facilities to show slides due to the change in venue so the speakers just used paper notes.
But I guess all those spreading this hate aren’t going to bother with a few irrelevancies such as the truth.

A Woman's Place is Speaking up in Wales (Cardiff Meeting next week)
RogerAllamsFangirl · 14/04/2018 16:23

Can I just say, because I'm highly frustrated and irritated as a lurker on this thread by some of crispbuttyfan's comments, that perhaps any posters feeling the same might take a break or something to help with #WTGLWGH. Peace and love.

RogerAllamsFangirl · 14/04/2018 16:24

Also, those screenshots and stuff from Twitter are making me want to scream. Another reason to remind everyone to keep cool.

Beyond11cisRetinol · 14/04/2018 16:36

Yeah there were no slides - not that the truth has stopped people like guiliana making up their own defamatory bullshit in the past

Beyond11cisRetinol · 14/04/2018 16:37

Sorry, naming people (though guiliana is tagged in the screenshot) probably isn't "going high"... Blush

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 14/04/2018 16:37

The people who spread misinformation know what they are doing, they taking a leaf out of the Russian Bots playbook. Spread lies so much that most people will just accept it’s the truth.

AncientLights · 14/04/2018 16:38

It's hardly the first time this has been raised but Crispbuttyfan's comments make a good opportunity to restate: I was subjected to an attempted rape a few weeks after my 13th birthday. If I had been scheduled to go on a residential trip, knowing there may be a penis owner in the shower or bed next to me, would I have gone? The answer is so resoundingly obvious that I will be greatly suspicious of the motives of anyone who gives a contrary answer. You'll have totally outed yourself as sick.

yetanothertranswoman · 14/04/2018 16:40

Spread lies so much that most people will just accept it’s the truth

That's a similar thing that some people who oppose self ID and people who are very much pro self ID do as well.

Keep repeating dubious statistics until it becomes truth.

QueenOfQuacks · 14/04/2018 16:43

There were no slides.

That's an outright lie.

No. Slides.

The change of venue meant that the equipment for slides wasn't available.

Ereshkigal · 14/04/2018 16:52

The people who spread misinformation know what they are doing, they taking a leaf out of the Russian Bots playbook. Spread lies so much that most people will just accept it’s the truth.

YY it was done quite successfully with the Speakers Corner attack.

Ereshkigal · 14/04/2018 16:54

There’s also lies being spread about slides being shown to mock people.

They're mixing up WNTT with A Woman's Place. Yet again. Perhaps deliberately, who can say.

yetanothertranswoman · 14/04/2018 16:57

YY it was done quite successfully with the Speakers Corner attack

What do you think of the repeated use of the "half of trans prisoners are sex offenders" statistic? One that seems to be based on dodgy assumptions?

Ereshkigal · 14/04/2018 17:01

I don't agree that it is based on dodgy assumptions. I am not convinced that it is likely that the majority of these prisoners are in sex offender prisons for their own protection. Based on other sources I have seen. But that's irrelevant to my comment. There is a video of what happened at Speakers Corner. It is clear to see what happened. I also believe the victim.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 14/04/2018 17:08

Next up: all the WPUK attendees flew to the new venue on their broomsticks, accompanied by black cats, and danced around frenziedly with no drawers and vests on... Shock

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