A Woman's Place is Speaking up in Wales (Cardiff Meeting next week)

[PlonitbatPlonit]

Just wanted to see who is going to this, and let Mumsnetters know it is happening if you didn't already. It's going to be a great meeting I think - with a choir singing too!

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-speaking-up-in-wales-tickets-43752975327

Why not start a thread about the trans prisoners stats yetanothertranswoman?
The report by Nic Williams is very comprehensive and explicit about its data and also any assumptions. If you think the assumptions are unreasonable (as I recall they were mostly conservative and the moj report confirmed that she had certainly underestimated the trans prisoners population)

Reports absolutely should be up for examination I agree.

Is it not the case that the figure was 41% rather than half? Half being the portion either housed in sex offender prisons or convicted of violent crime?

Sirvix
nice projection except I have a teenage daughter and an almost teenage daughter, and I would have zero problem with them sharing facilities with trans girls, like many other parents, so....

@crispbuttyfan that's nice. What if they had a problem with it?

I was there on Thursday and there were no slides shown. One of the speakers had intended to show some images of product packaging but because of the change of venue and the lack of facilities it was impossible to do so. Any claim that there were images shown is an outright lie, as is any claim that any individuals were mocked — except perhaps for Leanne Wood, leader of Plaid Cymru, for her comment about 'outdated ideas about biology'. That comment got a laugh and quite rightly so.

I'm not going to get emotional and say the lies are sickening. The lies are exactly what is expected and it's a sign of desperation that they are having to resort to making things up.

Faced with the actuality — a good-humoured gathering of people, male, female, trans and who knows what, from all walks of life, ages and positions on the political spectrum discussing issues that will affect the legal rights of half the population — the only way they can whip up a storm is to lie and misrepresent what went on. We just have to steer a clear and calm course through this. The more hysterical they get, the more ridiculous they look.

"Next up: all the WPUK attendees flew to the new venue on their broomsticks, accompanied by black cats, and danced around frenziedly with no drawers and vests on..."

Were you following me?!

You forgot to mention all the milk they curdled in Cardiff on Thursday.

Speaking of statistics - this press release produced by the government in 2016 states in 2013 that 26% of young people had attempted suicide in their lifetime.

Second from last paragraph.

So 1 in 4 young people under 26 said they had attempted suicide? That's extraordinary? I think we would have heard about this suicide epidemic if a quarter of the population under 26 had attempted this surely? Schools and universities would be in disarray if the expectation is 1 in 4 young people will attempt suicide? It must be true as the government are promoting this to the press as a fact?

www.gov.uk/government/news/gender-recognition-act-review-announced-in-plan-for-transgender-equality

Aargh the lies, the lies. I was there too. No slides. No mocking. The whole thing was filmed and so will be available for anyone to view. I have been a staunch supporter of gay rights and equality generally, I would not be attending a hate based event based on bigotry. It is perfectly obvious to anyone that this is the tack that activists are taking to crush any debate on A PROPOSED CHANGE IN LEGISLATION THAT HAS A DIRECT IMPACT ON WOMEN AND GIRLS. We have the right to discuss changes in law that affect our rights. It would be insanity for women not to debate this and take a long hard look at the impact of such changes. As speakers said at the event, I do not want my daughters to have fewer rights than I have had. The whole concept of identity is ambiguous and impossible to prove. Sex however, is material reality.

We couldn’t have any tea because of the curdled milk situation. And now all the sheep are barren and the crops are dying in the fields of Queen Street.

Agree with yetanothertrans that you get the same phenomena on each side of such a polarised debate.will follow on to new thread.

What is WNTT?

“They're mixing up WNTT with A Woman's Place. Yet again. Perhaps deliberately, who can say.”

We Need To Talk.

The House of Commons meeting was not about bigotry, yes it was unusual in that three presenters in the panel were lesbians, and lesbians are particularly affected by the alleged new sexuality lesbianism including female penis which is apparently something we must be legally forced to agree with. As with gay men being legally forced to agree vaginas are male. But as they were women talking this is hate.

Shelia Jeffreys did talk legally about the history of cross dressing which Stonewall include in the transgender umbrella of legally female gender definitions if identified that way by the participant. She legally showed us pictures of products legally on sale as legal transgender/crossdressing underwear which can be found legally on Amazon on sale legally for everyone to view legally. Perhaps we should advise Amazon this is hate speech. Or just condemn any woman that looks at this product as a bigoted hater.

I get confused about where hate begins and ends. Is it just the way you look at a product, either smile and say how lovely, that's ok the penis just wants to look like a camel toe slit?

Or say well a biological woman wouldn't wear those as they have a space to tuck in a penis, that's not ok?

Amazon offer to mail them discretely so perhaps Amazon thinks there might be something to be discreet about? Must women not mention this as the wearers want to be discreet about it, whilst at the same time insisting women have no discretion over who sees their bodies?

Confused? You will be. Its called gender identity.

The whole thing was filmed and so will be available for anyone to view.

This is good news.

It'll be on their YouTube channel, boaty...

m.youtube.com/channel/UCzFqsUqDzyXEQMJVy42NwUw
(Hopefully this link works?)

Thanks Beyond.

Jeni Harvey has already posted in print her speech in its entirety.

Of course, sirvix - I forgot for a second!

Here it is...
medium.com/@GappyTales/a-womans-place-is-speaking-out-60e0bdede52f

Apropos of nothing.

Just realised, SirVix = cervix.

Yikes, slow pun recognition there HerFemaleness.

I also love the subtle allusion to the vagina being the VixHall.

We should have a prize for the smartest puntastic user name.

I was Terflonnonstickpan for a while. Not that great but it made me chuckle as the insult just slipped off me.

Hang on wait, first it was , I bet you dont have any teenage daughters crispy...then I said I do, then it went on to, you cannot speak for my daughters, which I didn't try to do.... then more strawmans at my direction.

Everyone seems to be desperate to insist on the whole trans women are a problem in female spaces, without any significant problems arising thus far.

For instance scottish domestic violence refuge's and welsh womens aid, have explicitly stated support for trans women, and welcome trans women, and have been welcoming trans women for a long time, they are the kinda experts on this,and don't rely on projection and supposition, and this hasn't caused any significant problems, and they have stated explicitly those that argue including trans women into same sex spaces are entirely wrong.

So I'll listen to the experts thanks, rather than biased opinions of forum users.

For instance scottish domestic violence refuge's and welsh womens aid, have explicitly stated support for trans women, and welcome trans women, and have been welcoming trans women for a long time, they are the kinda experts on this,and don't rely on projection and supposition, and this hasn't caused any significant problems, and they have stated explicitly those that argue against including trans women into same sex spaces are entirely wrong.

Sorry I should have clarified that they are getting confused as some of the We Need to Talk meetings have had slides.

Haha Trousers I love that.

@Beyond11cisRetinol

"Were you following me?! shock"

yet there does seem to be quite robust evidence that a disproportionate number of incarcerated sex offenders are claiming to be trans at present.

My own view is that this says a good deal more about sex offenders than it does about trans people.