Ulster Rugby trial -continued

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

New thread.

Not above criticism, probably above phrenology though.

Lastgirl if either of them say they’re Irish then they’re irish. That isn’t for you to decide on their behalf.

Agree lastgirl, you cannot say who is & isn't Irish. Nor can you speak for 'your community'. We're talking about our country & the wider world and their attitudes to women. Making it more them & us is not helpful. The misogynistic attitudes it seems, sadly pervade all religions and communities. As we've seen, bringing religion into this argument doesn't progress the conversation anywhere & there is no evidence (that I'm aware of), that a persons religious beliefs or lack thereof, has any weighting on the likeliness of them becoming a perpetrator or victim of sexual abuse.

BelfastConnection said this on Sunday:

This thread may have reached its natural conclusion. The players will no longer play for Ulster, they have been publicly judged, raising awareness and levels of revulsion for them and suspicion of a culture of misogyny in the rugby club. Thees players, no doubt, will be asked to play for another club but that doesn't take away the progress that has been made in challenging unacceptable, unthinking male sporting culture.

I’m going to echo those sentiments and thank everyone who positively contributed to this thread I found it very beneficial.

Then, I’m going to lose the moral high ground before signing off, by telling Lastgirlontheleft they are a bloody joke who gives ‘Derry girls’ a bad name.

Lastgirl you make me very sad it's shocking if you boil this down to the old worn "them and us". Does everything that can unite us divide ultimately due to the anachronistic bipartisan sectarian nonsense. This is about standing against a culture that is deeply misogynistic, on both sides of the divide. Let's pretend there isn't a divide and look to unite behind a culture that respects women (well everyone for that matter)

Yes rugby is a protestant game in Ulster, yes these are middle class lads but the issues that the trial has presented cut across class and communities. I have been heartened to see Munster rugby flags at rallies, to see protests in the south and to note the breadth of the signatures on the IRFU petition.

I have been pleased by Ulster and the IRFU's response. I thought it was going to be a whitewash after I saw the MJ McB interview, fortunately it wasn't.

Let's be positive move on, and upward fighting wrongs that effect us all, and challenging what is clearly an unjust society wherever.

There's a strong tradition of women working together throughout the difficult times in NI's past, and it's been evident over the past few months. Its sad to see the divisions on this thread but I too remain heartened by what has been achieved.

I agree with others that it seems to be a new thread now and has evolved into a discussion of issues I don't feel able to contribute to and am not sure of the relevance of to the original topic.

However, thank you for the thought-provoking discussions and shared articles on the original topic of the trial and the consequences of that.

Once again Lastgirl has to put her bigoted two cents in..

I found this thread hugely supportive and you and a few others are responsible for derailing it...well done, take a pat on the back.

I also want to say that it is because of people like you, with your small-minded attitudes, that I will never live in N Ireland again. Turns my stomach..

Some people are Protestant, some people are Catholic...there are no differences between them other than a few beliefs.

Get. Over. It.

This is a very interesting article in relation to what females deal with surrounding sex and life in general.
theweek.com/articles/749978/female-price-male-pleasure

Very saddened too to see that this thread was basically hijacked and religion came into to this which I believe has nothing to do with it also just wanted to give a big hug to bumblefumble as a mother to another 💐xx

Alsross thanks - that is an good article

@BananaBat - finished asking for it today & thought it was great, disturbing similarities in places to the UR case

That poor woman!! How astonishingly brave of her to go through that trial knowing what the (alleged) rape had already done to her. I hope she has masses of good people around her right now and all the support she needs.

There is lots of local gossip about the victim and about further details of the case, but loads of it is wrong. So I don't think it's helpful to share it - it further affects her dignity.

I agree Somerville

Totally agree @Somerville this is not worth bringing up as it's not just gossip or hearsay it's a young woman's life and reality for the rest of her life. Not for any one of us to speculate or pass on what we may have heard.

I think you should delete that post

This is a thoughtful article on the fact that sacking the men is tackling the symptoms rather than the causes of the disease, here

Thank you LivingBoy that is a very well considered article.
Round of applause for Ewan.

I don't think it is a particularly good article so far as it deals with the termination of the contract. Their entirely legal, admitted and undisputed behaviour had the potential of bringing their employer into disrepute with consequent commercial and financial risks.

However unilaterally and immediately terminating a contract, particularly an employment contract is not a doddle.

You can see it as a "pay off" - the reality it gets rid of the person in the most efficient way. You can spend x amount fighting it and tie up managerial time fighting it in public or come to a settlement.

I have no doubt that if they had been employees of my firm we would have done the same.

summacummamumma Imagine if that isn’t true... for that matter imagine if it is? What about the victim’s right to privacy?

I don't think that article has any real point to make other than that Irish Rugby and BOI have behaved more morally in this instance than they have done in the past.

The article damns this on the grounds of inconsistency, but why would we prioritise that when attitudes need to be improved, not kept in the dark ages?

It read like more male special pleading to me.

And Lass is totally right about how this would be handled in a regular private sector job.

I disagree that the article doesn’t have any real point to make. I think the question of the role social media plays in driving responses to a number of issues - not just cases like this - is one which urgently needs addressing in today’s world. And I’m not sure why you say “why would we prioritise that when attitudes need to be improved” as if he doesn’t say that in the article.

What specifically makes it “male special pleading”?

i think the question of the role social media plays in driving responses to a number of issues - not just cases like this - is one which urgently needs addressing

Actually this is interesting, because one of the things social media does is give a voice to those whose voice under represented.

So the social media pressure here is coming from predominately women, who for once are able to make their opinions known on how rape cases are handled and the culture of high profile male sports.

I understand why men have found that immensely threatening.