Ulster Rugby trial -continued

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New thread.

And regarding misogyny, I think the misogyny at the school is just the same as in NI in general (which I'd say is pretty high), as a school it's not any better or worse than the rest of NI society.

Hadley Freeman’s article is really important this long after the case. I am very happy that the anger is carrying on about this case and what it shows about the appalling system we have which is so stacked against women.

Yes- good to keep the momentum going.

Thanks Sonic. Think my cynical mind is maybe going into overdrive.

Chaos, I didn't know about the misogyny. Like Germaine Greer said, "women have no idea how much men hate them". Well not hate exactly. After all, you don't hate the burger you're about to consume.

Marking my place until I finally remember my password - need to name change and come back in a bit! NI too small to take chance of recognition!!!

Really curious about this reporting restriction thing

I am half expecting the judge to keep the restriction there indefinitely.

Twixes, I think (not sure) the not-legally-rape victim in this case went to a Protestant school. There is a strong tradition of protesting in the nationalist community (civil rights marches etc). Many of the names on the twitter #ibelieveher are Irish and therefore probably Catholic. Which may be where the "Republican bitches" (or whatever slurs you have seen) come in. I believe these people are objecting not because the men involved in the case are Protestant, but because they are nasty misogynists, and because the protesters have a social conscience and some feeling for their fellow (wo)man, not because they're taking the opportunity to kick the posh Prods. As a (lapsed) Protestant, I'm happy to join them.

Marking my place - did Olding go to BRA? Devastated if he did as that's my old school & it's fantastic!

Hmm yes he did. I don't think the headmaster's fondness for "moral courage" penetrated there.

NI is a small place- my DTwin's on this thread ffs

Yes, my impression is that much of the protesting has been Irish-led, saw some dick querying why “catholic girls” all believe the complainant but I’m not aware that there’s any difference in class or religion between the complainant and the men. For those Irish south of the border, many women are fired up for activism at the moment anyway because of the upcoming referendum on the 8th amendment.

And I suspect #metoo has also possibly galvanized some of the protesting too.

Vicky - I wouldn't be surprised if it stays as well. Judiciary don't like not guilty verdicts being questioned that's the main reasons jurors must keep deliberations secret for ever.
They don't mind guilty verdicts being questioned over and over again with endless appeals putting victims through an endless hell. Unlike Stuart oldings lawyer who must live in a parallel universe and said if the verdict was guilty they wouldn't be able to question it. Like hell they'd be filing appeals faster than anyone can type that Irish senators name

Just placemarking from the last thread, but also to I agree with the poster above re rugby school culture in RoI. It's almost exclusively single sex schools. The uber Alles school sentiment seems common on both sides of the border.

Very good article by Hadley Freeman and agree so sad that it is spot on.

She mentioned how the complainant was hounded over referring to herself in the second person. ( I think she said something like "you could freeze with shock if assaulted" and the lawyer claimed she was not talking about herself but was repeating something she had read).

I don't know about others but I grew up in NI and everyone I knew and still know often referred to themselves in the second person - I still do a lot (My DH notices it) - it is just a very common way of speaking in NI

Re the judge, I definitely can see her keeping the restriction, if it is something that would throw more doubt on the not guilty verdict.

Thanks phuqouq and powershower for that insight.

Long may she get whatever support she needs; I hope she's reading the #ibelieveher timeline on Twitter (or maybe even this thread!) It's good for her to know that so many people are behind her.

're CG, that photo of him looks like (I could be completely wrong), it was taken outside the court and if he was there, I have my own opinion on him and no tweet will make a difference to that.

I don't have any knowledge of trials etc, can anybody explain WHY something would be admissable and why something wouldn't?

I know there is bad character legislation etc, and I could google but I'm not totally sure of the timeline etc.

I just remember the very famous case when Sarah Payne's murderer was found guilty and AFTER the trial it was released that he had been convicted previously for abducting a child.

I thought things HAD changed since then, so what kind of thing might be treated as inadmissable, does anyone know? I am not asking for speculation on THIS case - more of an equivalent example in recent time, as I don't really get how some things are admissable (private whatsapp groups) and others not (whatever it is in this case).

I'm sure someone has already made this point (haven't read everything because my ability to engage is compromised by my personal history) but sexual assault victims/survivors frequently refer to events in the second person.

Because you want to put some distance between yourself and the experience, because that's the only way to get your words out, because it's too horrific to use the first person and risk a flashback. That's why you do it.

Just having a little rant because I think it's really important to keep this going, to stay angry and vocal. Insofar as you can without the triggers becoming unbearable, of course.

What reporting restrictions have been put on the case by the judge? I haven't heard about this.

The whole thing does seem shifty as.

Yet another Methody person here (I started in 1972, very ancient, and my brothers went through it as well: I also went to Fullerton). Rugby was the be-all of sports.

Then, great academically and musically, massive Oxbridge entry every year. It was probably less rah then than it is now.

Duh, what I meant to add was that one brother rowed, the other played hockey, and they both remembering being very much second class citizens behind the rugby boys.

I do get the impression from reading some of the press coverage and some posts that there is very much a "big FIsh" mentality from people who went to these types of schools and stay in/end up back in NI. It sounds like there is very much a class division as in England, although without so much "above" the middle classes (the upper classes, rich foreigners from Russia, middle east etc), so that the tradional middle classes - the doctors, lawyers etc in Belfast - have more relative kudos (not the right word you get my drift) and wealth than may be the case in, say, London.
From across the channel it is easy to fall into the mindset of assuming that the oly real division in NI is on religious grounds, but of course it is never that "simple" (to the extnet there is anything simple about the religious divide).

Just listening to people on five live recounting experiences of when they were burgled - all callers switching between ‘i’ and ‘you’ when describing the trauma of what happened. Funny noone has accused them of lying yet

I agree, it seems very odd around reporting restrictions.