Ulster Rugby trial -continued

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

New thread.

Given that under current UK law, rape can only be committed by a person with a penis, you are unlikely to find a rape case in this country where a biological female is the sole defendant in the dock

What mask?

I’ve stated my bias clearly, and I’ve tried to convey that it troubles me. I don’t have faith in the current system to deliver justice either to innocent rape victims, or innocent wrongly-accused men.

Can you explain what you mean about consent being a two way street?

In terms of female defendants? That’s a thought provoking question. Where there is an obvious power imbalance, my instinct is to believe the person with less power. So if a women is accused of molesting a child or teen, I have an inclination to believe the victim.

Among adults, I don’t think my bias towards believing a male victim would be as strong. And I think that’s probably rooted in social and cultural power dynamics.

I’m well aware I wouldn’t be a good candidate for a jury in cases like this, and I’m not inclined towards lynch mobs. But pushing for changes in the system is something I feel strongly about.

I would very much like to have faith in the criminal justice system and as a citizen I think engaging with politicians both in opposition and government and expressing my concerns is a responsible thing to do. I live in a progressive democracy where I can speak out against injustice as I perceive it.

I’m not wearing a mask, except in so far as I will not specify the personal, professional and social experience that has contributed to my bias. But like anyone, my views are rooted in my life experiences. I don’t honestly know how to be clearer than this.

Article from the New York Times www.nytimes.com/2018/04/15/world/europe/ireland-rugby-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding.html

Well given the sheer number of women I know personally who have been raped and/or sexually assaulted and the staggeringly low number of reported rapes that even make it to court I would be inclined to believe that a man in court accused of rape has more than likely done it.

Good article inspired thanks. You know seeing it reported again it simply blows my mind that anyone could think that wasn’t rape.

I’m very disappointed that The NY Times shied away from reporting the actual wording of the WhatsApp messages.

Perfectly put Zibbaddo...

@Annwitnoe

No mask! Fair enough, that remark was inappropriately directed to you in this case & thank you for your detailed explanation.

Whilst I'm still saddened to hear of your complete lack of trust in the criminal justice system, I respect that you have a right to a different opinion & to campaign for changes therein. No society stands still after all & nor should it.

My issue is that if we can't respect the justice system, then what have we got? Why even bother with court cases if we just assume guilt the moment an accusation is made?

In that case, I'm afraid all we do have is lynch mobs etc, which you are also against. It's a slippery slope as soon as society decides to adjudicate on the law themselves in my opinion.

By the way, on consent being a 2-way street, I obviously meant that both parties will need to be equally sure of their ground on this issue. (albeit under the UK definition of sexual assault & not rape if the defendant happens to be female, as alluded to by TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross above)

Has anyone read Louise O' Neill's book Asking For It as mentioned in the New York Times article ?

Open letter and a call for survey responses from a number of victims agencies about changes to the legal system in the wake of the case:

link

boilingkettle I think the link to this survey should be hung from the rafters. Everyone should spread through their networks. It's so important.

I’ve read Asking For It. It’s very powerful and very depressing.

ann I agree with you.

just 96 percent of rape complaints do not result in a conviction. Unless you think the majority of complainants are liars, that means a substantial number of rapists are getting away with it.

I would also be a bad juror as I tend to think cases of all kinds don't even get to court unless there is a high chance the person was guilty.

Me too I would make bad juror as well.

I have read Asking For It and positively reviewed it and got so far four other people to read it and am buying her new books in hardback to support her. We need voices like her.

Honestly, if you read Louise O’Neill and support her, folllow her on Twitter, leave a good review on Amazon, buy her books. (I am not on affiliated to her btw, but she’s been AMAZING on this issue and she needs everyone’s practical support to keep doing what she does.

If we cannot get redress through the courts, if we cannot rely on due process, then we can fictionalise our experiences (so as not to get sued) and speak up that way.

Thanks theonly and banana I will definitely read asking for it.

Also glad to see Sassh’s post is now gone. Thank you HQ for listening.

Yeah! thanks for pointing out that it's gone Zibb.
I had a disappointing response from @MNHQ to my report of Sashh's post, initially.
They must have had a re-think.

Thanks HQ.

Really good to know what mnhq think of Irish people.

Thanks for showing your true colours

Or should I just bow my low sloping brow and avert my sunken hollow eyes in deference to your belated lip service.... sorry heat felt benevolence

I may be guilty of sending a very loooong and somewhat angry message to HQ asking them to have another look at it. They got back to me and said they would.

I am delighted that PJ and SO are having to fuck off elsewhere. I'm glad that their lives have been inconvenienced, even in such a small way.

I hope that this is a lesson to men, sportsmen and sporting organisations. And to KRW, whose crowing post trial and further victimisation of the complainant did their client no good whatever. Indeed I consider their comments to the media to be very similar to the "Top shaggers" and "Legends" WhatsApp messages.

I agree-KRW seemed to take the verdict as another boost to their corporate ego & went a step too far. Ordered that book & followed her on Twitter. Off to look at the survey now.

@eloisesparkle yes I love Louise O'Neil and have mentioned her before. I think she is an amazing Irish feminist. That book is brilliant and so relevant to this case it's scary.

Highly recommend it - she writes articles also and speaks really well and in Ireland has really tried to put the conversation around consent into the mainstream.