DV "gone wrong"

[DarthArts]

I'm struggling for words....

What's DV done right supposed to look like?

This is part of Jane trying to argue why women don't need single sex spaces....own goal right there.

I have to hope that's a coincidence.

Born

"I wouldn't have had a clue about ths without MN, and I consider myself well informed. Thanks, all of you who have helped enlighten me."

I so agree with this. And it's been a hell of a journey for all of us, including @MNHQ.

I would, again, like to thank MN for facilitating debate and free speech.

I know they will have been under enormous pressure from the trans lobby.

Thanks, MN, for letting us speak. It's outrageous that in 2018, women should have to say this; I am shocked ona daily basis now

That's a good point borntobequiet Savile got away with it because of the old currency of celebrity. Fae gets away with it because of the new currency of 'woke'. Both things make people suspend their critical thinking and ignore their instincts.

I'd like to make it harder for them to ignore the facts.

Another one sharing the genuine thanks to MNHQ and to all the brave women who are currently up front and facing the onslaught.

These tweets and the information that has come out has been truly horrifying on so many levels. My disgust is quite visceral at the awfulness of the views. But I thought it might be worth sharing what Karen Ingala Smith tweeted about this a few hours ago:

"I'm no fan of Jane'campaigner on sexual liberty*'Fae and appalled at the attitude to domestic violence revealed in those tweets, but please critique the tweets/opinion rather make personal attacks.
We can do better.*

Let's protect ourselves while ensuring that these disgraceful views are widely shared and condemned.

Why was Born's post deleted? @MNHQ

I think my comparison was too direct, and I understand why they deleted the post.

I agree that the way to deal with any of this is to critique tweets and opinion and not make personal attacks.

After recent threads on porn and increased violence depicted towards women, the testimony of two porn actresses who were effectively abused and signals to stop were ignored, learning more about the facts behind the violent porn act has made me feel quite sick. Particularly chilling was the link to a blog where porn hub had been analysed and comparisons between gay male porn (kissing etc) and hetro porn (violence, anal, 'rose budding,' no kissing) showed extreme misogyny.

Is there a war on women? I think so.

JF is no feminist. If JF has been aware of all this awful porn stuff, there's no way they support women.

I have a hell of a lot more respect (and I had a hell of a lot already) for those real feminists such as Julie Bindel and Karen I S who have had the patience to sit next to and even be nice and courteous to JF, when I'm sure they know about all of this.

And I say real feminists, not meaning they're real women, but they really think about the needs of women. I'm thinking of MY, Kristina and Debbie too. And to an extent, radical feminism could absolutely include trans women, and does actually in terms of being against the patriarchy and misogyny - but not those TW who are actively contributing to this misogyny.

This thread has completely confirmed that no, I'm not a terf. The term terf doesnt make any sense. I'm not about excluding trans people from feminism, I'm about making sure natal women are protected and not shat upon and I'm against the kind of flippant and deep seated misogyny this JF person is peddling.

trans are allowed to completely erase their past

Yes, it's called transwashing.

Everything they did and said before they 'come out' as trans simply melts away and becomes as nothing. If women bring those things out into the open, it's women who are the evil bastards.

Great post Materialist
It's incredibly dangerous - especially for women and children but actually for society as a whole. And some of these very people are being courted and feted by our politicians and the establishment without any hesitation and given a level of power and control that places so many at risk.

You really do have to wonder about all the people that come in here and moan about all the 'anti-trans' opinions on here.

Just what is their agenda?

I mean, it doesn't take 5 seconds to work out what the problem is; it is the likes of JF and as evidenced by the info detailed in this thread...and yet still the people moaning about MN being 'anti-trans' day in, day out.

That review of the book. A little passage that leapt out at me:

Yet this isn’t what bothers me most about this work. Throughout Beyond the Circle, the discrimination heaped on those who step outside the heteronormative “charmed circle” is compared directly with that faced by women and gays (the latter being her terminology – “gays” not as a lazy, unthinking shorthand for LGBT people, but for what she sees as a privileged subset thereof). Despite her good intentions, Ozimek grasps onto those favoured targets for ‘pendulum swung too far’ and ‘underserved special status’ accusations and just doesn’t let go. And in this respect, what she argues is neither accurate nor fair.

Very interesting indeed. Pendulum swung too far and undeserved special status indeed ... I think someone's agenda is showing.

So if I've read this right, this person was one of those types who spend a very very very large amount of time vociferously defending "free speech" specifically the freedom of men to make and consume pornography of the type outlawed in the legislation quoted above, and additionally feel it is inconsistent that 16 & 17 yo should not be "allowed" to appear in films with this content (permanent damage to vagina, anus, breasts and etc and so on).

I see.

(Of course someone may point out that women may also make and consume this material. Funnily enough, they don't really, very often, and the people getting so interested in free speech when it comes to violent porn are IME men).

On consent, which they seem to have some interesting ideas about. For sure it is easier to get younger people to "consent" to things. The men in to Rotherham etc knew this.

Men who are keen to get things "consistent" so they can enjoy 16/ 17 yo be abused in porn need to be given a fucking wide berth. IMO.

It's also interesting that these still fully intact biological males, who love this violent and mutilation porn, are the ones pushing furiously to allow young teens to take pills to halt puberty and mutilate their bodies with surgery. Surgery that they have zero intention of having themselves.

Jane Fae submitted evidence as a trans representative to Maria Miller's report on transgender equality.

How the fuck did they choose these people? All the written evidence was desperately one-sided, coming from trans-activists like Anna Lee (puberty is optional - kids, take hormone blockers), batshit, unhinged men like Action for Trans Health and now this extreme porn stuff from Fae.

How could they have been so stupid?

Right. Why isn’t this being reported as hate speech?

Because it's not according to law. (Technically there's no such offence as "hate speech" anyway)

A poster on here was reported to the police and interviewed under caution for a gender critical, non violent post, but this blatant incitement to violence against women as a class is allowed to fly?

"Women as a class" are not a hate crime qualifier in law, but gender identity is. The Police are duty bound to investigate an alleged offence against one but not the other* Regardless, what was written is unbelievably crass, but it's not incitement to violence. At all.

*Before anyone jumps in with Nottinghamshire Police's trial, this was for recording purposes only. Nothing was or could have been charged with misogyny as an aggravating factor as they can't decide to change the law

Women as a class" are not a hate crime qualifier in law, but gender identity is.

Yes. Why do you think that might be? Sex is a protected characteristic. And "gender identity" is not. It is "gender reassignment".

Interesting to see quote from MRA Janice Fiamengo retweeted by minnymum. Originating from Guiliana who claims, "Cause of Anti-trans fake fem cult" is "...low level hysteria caused by social media".
Bear in mind that Guiliana has been quite influential of late, prolific amongst TRA's & often retweeted... even by Maria Miller!

Wow, the utter misogyny there.

@ijustwannadance

That's why it's so unsettling isn't it. Someone made a tenuous link about that on another thread and its when i really started to wake up to what some of these men's agendas might really be about. Not saying more as i don't want to get deleted.

Ah, that must be how we can tell someone is really truly deep down a woman. They’re happy to use a misogynist term like “hysteria” to trivialise and dismiss women’s concerns.